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  1. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Bonus sharing with all employees

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by BrianIff, Oct 10, 2015.

    So I've recently started a new job and found out that for each month there is a target amount of production in this medium-sized, non-unionized, light-manufacturing business. This results in many overtime requests, and in addition, some months are busier with people staying 12+ hours, 5 or 6 days a week. I'm fairly sure management gets bonuses for meeting targets, but do all employees deserve a bonus? Is it wrong to not give a bonus? The tax rate also increases in my province/country after 44 hours, but I'm not sure if they give it back on the tax return.

    ETA: The government doesn't actually know how many hours we work, but overtime (time and a half wages) kicks in at 44, and then people get taxed worse than their usual rate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  2. Bookster
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    Bookster Banned

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    'Deserve'? 'Wrong'? I don't know, but in a private, non-union business, it would seem that your only recourse would be to quit if you feel strongly enough about it. I don't know anything about Canadian taxes, but there's no rate increase after a certain number of hours here in the US.
     
  3. Aled James Taylor
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    Aled James Taylor Contributing Member Contributor

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    The idea that everyone receives a equal share of everything, is called Socialism (or communism?). The idea that bosses give you as little as they can get away with whilst keeping the rest for themselves, is called Capitalism (or free market economics).

    In Canada, in the last election, did people mostly vote for a Socialist party or a Capitalist party? Are your politicians genuinely concerned with the plight of the poor and working class or are they laughing all the way to the bank?

    In a company were bosses are rewarded when the company performs well, would those same bosses be dismissed when results are poor?

    When it comes to right and wrong, it would seem fair that those who earn a reward, receive a reward. Does this describe a capitalist system or a socialist system?
     
  4. daemon
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    daemon Contributing Member Contributor

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    Neither. It describes the act of giving a reward to someone who earns a reward.
     
  5. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    I'm actually non-committal as to whether we deserve (in a strong sense) a portion of the bonuses. And to second @daemon 's post, I'm wondering about business ethics from a non-partisan, non-legal standpoint.
     
  6. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    This is a gross simplification, @BrianIff, you need to know some things about Marxism. First that Marx and Engles wrote the communist manifesto specifically about your form of employ. They were both appalled by the conditions under which factory workers were subjected in the start of the industrial revolution. The foundation is very simple. In order for a factory owner to make a profit he has to use components worth less than what he will sell the final product for. One of those components is the labor of the people working for him. It is therefore impossible for him to pay his workers what they are actually worth. You are selling your labor to your employer at a loss.

    Marx and Engles proposed that the workers themselves should own the companies that they worked for. In this way they would be able to take advantage of their own profits for their labor. This particular model has never been truly replicated in any structure, other than perhaps tech startups, which usually go on to bring on more employees for less pay. Where ever you work you will always be disenfranchised, unless you are working for yourself.

    From there we can definitely say that sharing bonuses would be morally wrong. The labor that you put in to earning that bonus is worth more than the bonus. But it is less wrong than paying you only your agreed wages. (Which again, are also morally wrong.)
     
  7. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    Meritocratic system?
     
  8. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/surprise--paying-ceos-for-stock-performance-doesn-t-help-companies--cornell-183854141.html
     
  9. daemon
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    daemon Contributing Member Contributor

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    Meritocracy specifically refers to leadership by people who are best at leading.

    More generally, the simple idea of rewarding someone who deserves to be rewarded is not a system. It is just a decision that is either made or not made.

    Regarding the OP, it sounds like no one deserves a bonus; it is just a pragmatic incentive the company uses to try to get managers to manage more effectively. Which just ends up incentivizing them to ask their employees to work overtime. (The employees are getting paid for their overtime work, right?)

    Maybe the deeper question is not whether employees should also receive bonuses, but whether the managers should receive bonuses in the first place if they, instead of working smarter, just have their employees work harder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  10. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Although I'm not prepared to agree that the management bonus is b.s., in our case, as workers, we will get there in winter in the dark and leave after sundown. Although my OP is getting at the idea of fairness, or what that might be, there could be a practical reason to give us a bonus if the demands of the job are so extreme to make one consider leaving.
     
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