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  1. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    Charlie Hebdo

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by outsider, Jan 14, 2015.

    The French satirical magazine, Charlie Hebdo has printed upwards of three million copies of its latest edition (up from their usual 60k). On the cover, a cartoon of the prophet Mohammad is depicted crying whilst holding a sign which reads Je Suis Charlie under the headline:
    All Is Forgiven.
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad
    Is this act a defiant statement of resolve and unwavering defence of free speech and expression or an inflammatory and ill advised, offensive gesture in light of recent events?
    Discuss.
     
  2. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Why don't you tell us what you think?
     
  3. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think whilst it's a delicate issue, the fundamental right of freedom of expression and that of the press should be upheld and defended robustly. Just not sure if this is entirely the right way to go about it.
    Having said that, I do admire the sentiment but then, I'm not a Muslim.
    This sort of cartoon political satire is particularly prevalent in France and they don't pull any punches.
    I would say the reaction to these cartoons generally, is somewhat disproportionate to say the very least, but as the article highlights, many Muslims are offended by them.
    Particularly this one. Particularly given the timing.
    Just wanted to gauge opinion.
     
  4. GingerCoffee
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    I'm curious as to the reaction the perpetrator supporters are having to the millions of marchers in Paris and selling out of 2 million copies on the first day of print. Do they think they failed? Or are they happy to see the resistance because they hope to stir up a reaction to the reaction?

    In other words, I wonder what they thought they were accomplishing with these murders?
     
  5. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I feel sorry for the dead.
     
  6. Boger
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    Every Muslim should realize saying "Je suis Charlie" is like saying "I drew the prophet Mohammed".

    Or is there something I didn't understand of their debatable aniconism. Only Muslims who accept that the depiction of prophet Mohammad does not necessarily lead to idolatry are, in their right, allowed to say "Je suis Charlie".
     
  7. BayView
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    Are a significant number of Muslims saying "Je suis Charlie"?
     
  8. Boger
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    Boger Contributing Member

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    Significant enough I even find one saying that. That's a yes, and also potentially eye opening (for me, alas).
     
  9. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, I think there are loads of moderate Muslims who don't have a problem with depictions of Mohammed. They might not go all the way to "Je suis Charlie", but that doesn't mean they couldn't qualify under your somewhat peculiar rule.
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    While I don't agree with the extreme Muslims, I have to acknowledge that they are operating from a different moral foundation, one which is not inherently inferior to my own. Whereas in my world, and probably that of most who post here, the interests of the maximum benefit to individuals is paramount, it appears to me that their faith is their highest priority, against which the welfare of the individual, no matter how many are impacted, means nothing.

    I will defend to the death the supremacy of the individual, and I daresay they feel the same way about defending the sanctity of their faith.

    Just taking a few steps in their shoes, though I prefer my own.
     
  11. GingerCoffee
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    Do you make the same moral judgement about a murderer or a child abuser?

    Just curious how far you take that I'm OK-You're OK POV on morals.
     
  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Way to completely miss the point.

    I've already said where my priorities lie. I abhor terrorism and all it stands for.

    The thread topic is Charlie Hebdo. Now in the light of the cultural chaam I discussed, can you conceive of anything Charlie Hebdo did that could have enraged those who committed the atrocity? Is there anything Charlie Hebdo is doing in the aftermath that could be considered "poking the bear"?

    None of that, of course, excuses the slaughter. But think for a moment about the idea of "fundamental" right and wrong. Could a human culture truly be so alien as to be completely incompatible with what "civilization" accepts as incontrovertible right and wrong, and in fact be self consistent in that cultures own principles of morality?

    I'm probably wasting my time even talking about it. We are in a war, and no one wants to ever see that the enemy is anything but mindless evil. After all, it doesn't change the fact that the enemy must be defeated, even destroyed. And lest there be any mistake, I say that with no sarcasm whatsoever.
     
    Adenosine Triphosphate and Boger like this.
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