Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento

    cops can now "guess" speeding motorists

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by erebh, Nov 9, 2013.

    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/ohio-police-officers-can-now-issue-a-speeding-ticket-with-only-a-guess-ar91312.html

    Ohio cops can now guess speeding drivers, they don't need stopwatches, other timing-devices or even radar to give someone a ticket. They aren't even being given and extra training. How open is this new law to being taking advantage of?

    Obviously any idiot can tell if a car is flying past a school at open/close time with kids everywhere but a motorist just below the speed limit on a motorway/freeway can also be cited if the cop "thinks" the driver is too fast. The driver has no right to reply, it's his word against the cop's.

    Do you think this is right?
     
  2. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,601
    Likes Received:
    5,875
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Depending on the circumstances, why not? You posted an example where it would be possible to determine someone was speeding when you saw them.

    Whether cops abuse this privilege or get it wrong is a different issue.
     
  3. 123456789
    Offline

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,332
    Likes Received:
    3,084
    I think we all know cops will abuse this privilege.
     
  4. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Apart from fines going through the roof and bent cops taking back-handers for not issuing tickets, is this another step closer to a complete police state? When people in uniforms can arrest and convict possible innocents without the slightest of any proof except his/her word...
     
  5. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,601
    Likes Received:
    5,875
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Can a cop not do that abuse of power stuff anyway? Couldn't a cop lie and say he had a speed detector reading when the detector wasn't used?
     
  6. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    This is an absolutely stupid law. Aside from the fact that guessing someone's speed is completely unreliable, challenging a ticket in court is now going to be harder than ever. I've come to notice that when it's a cop's word against yours, the cop always wins. I seriously hope this law gets overturned. Guessing shouldn't be considered evidence.
     
  7. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    @GingerCoffee well speaking for Europe and probably the rest of Europe, they need to produce the reading in court so the answer is no they couldn't
     
  8. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,601
    Likes Received:
    5,875
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    How do they produce it, and what stops them from producing a counterfeit readout?
     
  9. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    According to The Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission, standards call for students to estimate speeds of 20 vehicles and the instructor to calculate the difference between the estimate and the actual speed. Students pass if the average difference is five miles per hour or less. Also, officers are taught to track - follow behind -- vehicles suspected of speeding to determine speed as well. Unless an officer becomes accurate, they will not be granted certification.

    Additionally, police officers use their judgement in a variety of situations, including following too closely, unsafe driving and even resisting arrest. These are all judgement calls that we give to our public servants.

    There is a public trust that the police officers are in place to protect us from the 'bad guys'. I think it's easy to create a bias based solely on the media reports of rogue officers.
     
  10. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    I can't drive, so this is completely irrelevant to me! Only three more years....

    In 3 years though, I still won't care, because I will never go to Ohio.
     
  11. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    Ohio's not the only state that allows this. Pennsylvania and another one I can't remember.

    Also, if you are driving the speed limit, you don't have to worry. ;)
     
  12. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    Damn.

    Double damn.
     
  13. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    In Europe laws spread very quickly. Ireland were the first country in the world to bring in the smoking ban while everybody else looked on to see how it went - now it's almost everywhere.
     
  14. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    If I'm doing 64 in a 65 zone, a cop standing on the side of the road reading a newspaper can just say I was doing 66 and he wins - this is the point.
     
  15. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    Does anyone here actually drive under the speed limit? The only people who seem to drive at or below the limit are new drivers or old people.

    Last time I talked to a cop (many years ago), he told me that it's legal to go a little bit over the speed limit, but he didn't tell me exactly how much over.
     
  16. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    I think it's about 5 mph.
     
  17. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    In Ireland there's a 10% grace for possible errors in the car's speedo.
    The pint of this thread is, is it a licence for cops to rack up fines and is it another step towards a police state when cops/judges don't need evidence to convict people?
     
  18. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    I don't want to automatically say police state without further looking into the motivation behind it. But the fact that people can be ticketed based on a guess is certainly cause for worry.
     
  19. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    Yeah like I said, one step towards...
     
  20. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    As stated previously, LEO's routinely use their judgement based on training and experience.

    While possible, this scenario is highly unlikely. Even though they are able to use their judgement when ticketing for 'unsafe speed', they are not claiming exact numbers and would not use a judgement for a speed close to the posted limit. A judgement would only be utilized in cases of excessive speed.

    Again, this is why we closely scrutinize the people we allow to become LEO's. They are not out to 'get people' but the overwhelming majority of them are public servants keeping the roads safe and I wouldn't want it any other way.
     
  21. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    Yes, but guessing is never good. Officers can now stop anyone they think is speeding.

    Besides, training and experience can sometimes fail officers. A lot of officers are trained to use guns, but based on all the news I've read lately, it seems like cops nowadays have adopted a policy of shoot first, ask questions later. So I don't trust training that much, sorry to say.
     
  22. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    And you'd be surprised how little training is required for all different things. I don't know about cops, but you only need 75 hours of training to be a caregiver for the elderly.
     
  23. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    Understanding that public perception and reality are different is key. If you are driving down the highway and someone is tailgating you, do you want a police officer not to protect you and your family because he cannot accurately measure the distance between two cars? Of course not, we have a public trust with the police that they are using their judgement in a way that protects and serves us, the law-abiding people.

    The people of law enforcement are and must be the best, the brightest, and the most dedicated in defending the laws, the ideals, and the citizens that make this country great. More than anything else, law enforcement must be trusted to carry out these duties with the highest level of ethics and character. The reason is because in many ways, law enforcement embodies and represents the ideal of the rule of law that governs civilized society.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  24. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    Becoming a police officer is as rigorous as you would expect. Months of academy training, on-the-job traingin, background checks, psychological and physical tests, etc... It is not something that a majority of people can do.
     
  25. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    Look, I like cops and admire them for their work just as much as you do. But there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. Guessing is the wrong way. And people in law enforcement are humans, too. They make mistakes like everyone else. We shouldn't have policies that punish innocent people for mistakes a cop makes. There are better ways to check if someone is speeding or not.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page