1. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    Cover Art

    Discussion in 'Collaboration' started by ToBeInspired, May 26, 2016.

    Alright, ever since I stopped going out drinking and eating all the time I've been able to save quite a lot of money. Factor in walking distance from work and the only outgoing expense really being rent & groceries... thought why not.

    I'm looking into paying someone for the cover art on my first book of my series. I haven't finished the book yet, so I may even decide later not to use it. My main reason for wanting it was to have it blown up onto a poster and put it on my wall. Thinking a visual reminder (I'd throw the back on too probably) would help motivate me towards working on it more often.

    I'm still not 100% sure I know what I want my cover to be, thus it may change later on. I do have an idea at the moment, but I'll go over that in PMs later on while discussing pricing.

    At this time I thought I would just offer this first to the forum instead of going to deviant art or some such site. If anyone has the skill and is interested in making some side cash, let me know.

    Show me some of your work and if I'm interested I'll start a private message conversation to discuss it further.

    Disclaimer: I couldn't see where else to potentially post this, so if I broke a rule or two let me know.
     
  2. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    Just to put a bee in your bonnet, if you have a community college or art school around you, try there first. Some will do it for nothing just to get there name out there. You could probably get it real cheap also.
     
  3. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    I'm 99% I could get I for free. Was kind of a spur of the moment thing while working only book.
     
  4. Iain Aschendale
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    Iain Aschendale Contributed Member Contributor

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    Not a huge fan of this idea. Too many creative folks (like writers) are too eager to "get their names out there" and get taken advantage of as a result. Flip it around and imagine a painter who'd done a poster-sized picture of, dunno, a dragon fighting a helicopter and came to you with the request that you write a story for free to "get your name out there". If you're just starting out and don't expect to make much money, tell your artist and agree on a price, or to give them a cut of sales, but the whole "exposure" thing for creatives is really not fair.
     
  5. DeadMoon
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    DeadMoon Contributing Member Contributor

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    As long as the creative person is getting some soft of credit (a thanks, a website link ect... then I think it is fair. Not everything should be about financial gain even if they are just starting out. If I held out for cash only for some of my design work I would have never worked with multiple bands that resulted in my work being in the hands of a major name in the music industry. Granted my work was not up to most professional standards but that one free job go "exposed" to names and people who I would have never imagined possible. I can't name names but this guy is considered one of the top in his field. Sure, sooner then later money is great but experience and exposure can be far more important early on.
     
  6. IlaridaArch
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    IlaridaArch Active Member

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    Sorry, but I really have to address this. Doing things for "getting name out there" or "for coverage" is next to free work, and it rarely pays off. It is not a honest pay for honest work.

    http://www.aol.com/article/2013/01/22/work-free-job-interview/20433098/

    Too much people abuse artists with this, and it needs to stop. If someone says he is graphical artist by profession, then s/he should recieve a payment for the work. A word of mouth is not payment. Not even close. Ask yourself this; do you even read the page in the book, where it says credit to the cover artist?

    This idea of using young aspiring people for free is complete bs. Like I said, it is free work done for tough job. Good cover artist sells you those books, and it isn't fair deal to use them to your advantage. Obviously their pricing should be the lowest end, but there needs to be money changing hand. Otherwise it's not fair deal, simple as that.

    Someone pays for that book and you recieve money. You are being paid for your work, so why the cover artist should not?
     
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  7. Buttered Toast
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    Buttered Toast Active Member

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    As I have sold my art work before I believe in buying cover art and character art for my book too, they have to (like me) make a living!
    I'm really interested in this post, I studied art for several years and love to see good thought out cover works, I have some amazing artists that help me with both my covers and character pictures :)
    If you want some names and you are prepared to pay then I can pass details over to you :D
     
  8. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Working for exposure is most often a losing proposition for the artist. Not that it can never pay off, but it generally doesn't.

    Flip it - suppose someone very good with art wanted to publish a book and asked you to write the content for "exposure." You saying yes? I wouldn't, unless it was an artist so well-known that I could be guaranteed to get great exposure from it. If Stephen King asked an unknown artist to do a free cover for exposure, it would likely be worthwhile given his sales and how many people are going to see the work (not to mention having that as a credit), but some random self-published writer? Not worth it. That said, it's not unlikely that you could find someone.
     
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  9. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    This is an old thread, but I don't see your point. Ever heard the term "starving artists?"

    I know a LOT of graduates of multiple art colleges who aren't doing much with their degree. I also know a few who've started their own businesses and are very successful.

    Why would I be asking a Picasso to do my cover art? Talent does not bequeath notoriety.

    You can't always flip things around to make a point.

    For instance, you're talking to a child about right and wrong. You go over Santa and his naughty list. You go then explain how much work it is for Santa to visit all the good little boys and girls in a single night and why that's a reward for being good all year. Now you flip it, "what if you had to give go to the North Pole and give Santa a present?"

    Santa is visiting billions of children strewn across the world within an 8hr period (while you're sleeping). While going to the North Pole would be extremely difficult it in no way compares to the ordeal Santa has to do.

    It's almost the same with what you said... a book can take MONTHS or YEARS to produce while a piece of cover art should take only HOURS or DAYS.

    Also, I never made the point of the artist getting exposure as a benefit. I simply stated a business transaction and the possibility of more.

    Sorry to rant a little, my personality type is Debater (ENTP-F).

    @L C Cranston Yes, I'm still interested. I wouldn't mind seeing the work already done for you as well. I'm interested in commissioning approx. 20 - 30 pieces in the long run. However, I'm still haven't decided what I wanted for all of them. Currently only interested in four pieces, but only one be for cover art. The others would pertain, but would be for room decoration / later on my website.
     
  10. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    You should level up. That rant didn't make much sense. If you prefer to equalize for time spent in making the analogy for books versus covers, that's fine, however barring exceptional circumstances it's not much of a benefit for the person contributing for free and it perpetuates devaluing of the art. There is already an expectation of artists and writers working for free, particularly online. None of which means you can't find someone to take you up on it, I just don't think it's a good idea and thus far haven't heard a compelling argument to the contrary.
     
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  11. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    My argument was that writing a book and creating a piece of cover art are in no way equitable. I never said I was trying to get a free piece of cover art. In fact I stated, clearly, that I wished to pay. I even later stated that I could get it done for free. However, my standpoint hasn't changed. I want a legal business transaction.

    It was other users who began and continued the discussion towards that specific topic.

    Maybe my Santa analogy was a tad ridiculous, but I wanted to exaggerate a skewed ratio just as you had. I was busy, at the time, so it might not of come out properly. There are more artists than novelists, so if authors asked for cover art and artists for novels... the demand would be in favor of the novelists. It would also be a time issue. It would more than likely be possible for an artist to finish 300 pages of drawings before an author finished 300 pages of a book.

    I never mentioned exposure in exchange for their work. That would be unrealistic to expect, I'm not a known author. I could get a friend to do it, but I would feel weird bringing up the legal aspect of it all... rather just invest into it. A few hundred dollars really isn't much when compared to the countless hours spent into it. I even doubt it would be that much.

    The money aspect really doesn't mean much to me. I had intended to make it into a poster and use it as a wall decoration to help motivate future writing as well.

    Sorry if I'm coming off as confrontational. Been really stressed out lately. Quit drinking and smoking, on a juicing diet, and have been having serious sleep issues.

    I just don't want people to think I'm trying to cheapskate my way into freebies. Why wouldn't it be a standard business transaction when I plan to make monetary gain on my end? I mean I wouldn't say no to some great drawings, but I would only use them for personal use.

    Edit: Was tempted to just erase it all and not post a reply. I know I'm exhausted and too tired to even reread my post which I normally always do. Probably more addled babble.
     
  12. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    @ToBeInspired

    Serious things first: sorry to hear how you've been feeling. I've been there and done that, when I had to quit smoking and caffeine. Took me a couple months, minimally, to get sorted. I hope you get some rest and feel better - that's a miserable state of being, but hopefully a temporary one!

    My point on the books, in a roundabout way, was that there are people who have written novels in three days, and there are other kinds of books (for example, a graphic novel with limited text might take the artist much longer to do than the writer), so I'm just suggesting that for purposes of a hypothetical we assume the time contributions are equivalent, and if we make that assumption would you think the writer should work for free.

    Of course, artists and writers can do what they want, and in theory I'm not opposed to people doing the odd favor or even making a calculation based on the idea of exposure (assuming it's informed), but in the last decade or so it seems like I've seen more and more expectation that writers or artists work for free, and I don't think that's good overall, even though there might be individual cases where it is.
     
  13. OurJud
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    OurJud Contributing Member Contributor

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    What genre is it? You don't always need an artist for book covers. Just someone who can press the shutter on a camera and has a good eye for design could do just as good a job, if not better. Never been a fan of cover 'art'.
     
  14. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    I'm actually a fairly competent photographer. Been a hobby of mine since high school. I could have my step-dad do the graphic design for free. That being said not interested in that approach. Part of selecting a book, for me, is the cover art. If it's half-assed I'm already subtracting some points from the author. Makes me worried they didn't bother to edit as well.

    Well, I have thre series in my WIP. Course I assigned levels of priority, but I like switching in between we one gets stale or I hit a block.

    One series is a horror thriller. Another is a supernatural detective. The last has mutiple genres in the series. It's science fiction but has virtual reality immersion as a theme. There is cyberpunk, horror, fantasy, etc.

    @Steerpike Was going to get up early today (3hrs sleep), but slept in an extra 4. Really made a difference. Hopefully I can actually fall asleep early tonight and get up early tomorrow. Have a few things to get done.
     
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  15. OurJud
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    OurJud Contributing Member Contributor

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    But why on earth should the fact the book uses a photograph instead of 'art' mean it's a half-arsed design? In my experience the opposite is true. Cover art, even good cover art cheapens a novel in my opinion. And besides, there are as many covers out there that use a photograph, as there are that use original artwork.
     
  16. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    Well, that's your opinion. I also never said anything bad about photographs. I simply was stating that any cover art I see that is half-assed detracts from the book from the get go. Which is why I plan on paying a professional to do mine. I don't care if it's hand drawn, done completely in photo-shop, or a photograph. All about the quality.
     
  17. OurJud
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    OurJud Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well that's fair enough and your choice. What I don't understand is why you'd come here looking for that. What makes you think anyone here is a professional book jacket designer?
     
  18. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    Ya... weird to think a writing forum would have artists or people who know artists... not sure what I was thinking. Not like I hadn't said I was just throwing it out there and planned on also exploring other alternatives. I must be going ctrazy.
     
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  19. OurJud
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    OurJud Contributing Member Contributor

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    And what's that got to do with being a professional book jacket designer? You think because someone can paint a unicorn they must be masters at designing book covers?
     
  20. IlaridaArch
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    IlaridaArch Active Member

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    A professional level artist will do multiple concept sketches, produces couple of them to good level and then u pick which one wins and then he produces it to publish level. If communication is fast, all this is done in two days and artist puts in about 10hours of work.

    How much you spend time on your book, has nothing to do with the time the artist uses for the cover. Ok? It sounds like, as if you are belittling the artist's part with that time comparison. It comes out as you saying "my job is harder", which is not too helpful.
     
  21. Buttered Toast
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    Buttered Toast Active Member

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    Sorry for the delay! :)
    Here are some pictures I had made from an artist off Devient Art:
    I'm also just commissioned another artist to draw me some shields which are working out well :)
    They both draw amazing characters and animals!
    Oh and nearly forgot, one draws weapons and steampunk style outfits!
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Why is everyone obsessed with anime? (Just being nosy?)
     
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  23. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    Not belittling anyone at all. Why would I be willing to put my own money if I was? I simply didn't like the example someone else used. I just felt that it didn't work.

    Just because a cantaloupe and a banana are both fruit doesn't mean they taste the same.

    All I'm saying is they should be valued individually and not lumped together. Writing and art aren't the same thing. There can be an art to writing, but that's just semantics. A story can paint a picture, but it's not a painting.
     
  24. IlaridaArch
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    @Buttered Toast - do you mind putting your images inside a spoiler? Would help everyone's reading (and people with slow internet). :) Cool looking art.
     
  25. Buttered Toast
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    Buttered Toast Active Member

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    I don't know, but I didn't intend it to look anime, it's just the way the artist draws them, I personally don't think they look too Anime to me but their eyes are meant to glow. :)
     
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