1. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    Creative writing.

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by writingone, Oct 9, 2016.

    I love creative writing and I love words, but words have many meanings and that is where grammar comes in. I have a handicap there plus story writing as well. I cannot seem to organize my sentences into the paragraph, which is my way of writing. Numbers have an order (1234 as well as the alphabet ABC). I have problems wondering if I have the correct order in words and sentences plus paragraphs?

    The next paragraph I might have in some order (1234), but might be something totally different, and this bothers me, and the word uniform and structure comes to my mind. I know there is no perfect writing and I believe in sentence structure more than grammar. Because I have this handicap, should I continue to write to be understood by the reader are just quit and find me a new hobby, the word (perfect) comes to mind. Will you critique this, please? Chat One
     
  2. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    This is more or less redundant with my other post in your other thread, but: Sentence structure IS grammar.
     
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  3. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    Chicken,
    I did not know that, thank you. Chat One
     
  4. Malisky
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    Malisky Fuzz Overdriver Contributor

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    Of course you can be understood when you say: "I hungry. Want eat omelet now!" This is a structure of a sentence that although incorrect, gives the same meaning as this: "I am hungry. I want to eat an omelet now!" It's easy to fill in the blanks and the meaning is simple in nature. But if I were to say: "Hungry omelet. Want eat I now!", then the meaning changes completely. It would make no sense.

    The syntax of a sentence is just one part of grammar. Language is a code. There is artistry behind the process of building a sentence in order to express what you are thinking with clarity (Depth is not always achieved, but first things first). You can even take things deeper and make your sentence have appeal. Play with it. The rules of grammar are meant to be the helping guidelines for the complexity of our interactions. By that, I mean a successful communication system. Without one, we would be doomed as a complex specie. Imagine all the misconceptions that would take place. It would be a mess! Btw, I'm not trying to convince you to use it by those guidelines. Merely explaining my opinion.

    I got somewhat of a similar idea while I was translating something. The concept and it's beauty changed as I was trying to translate it in a grammatically correct way in English and I thought that it was such a pity.

    I believe that our way of thinking is partly and greatly forged by the language that we first learn. It happens gradually, from a very early stage in our life, which we barely remember and blends in with our thinking patterns, seamlessly as we grow up. You see, in English you say: "I am hungry", while in greek you say: "Πεινάω" and in Japanese it's not irregular to say: "O-naka ga suite iru". It all means the same, whatsoever, described from a completely different POV. There is a distinct difference upon the philosophy that this word gets expressed in each language. (I hope I'm making sense. I'm still no expert in using this code. I hope I'll get better in the future).

    But I'll get to the point now. If you do not care about the correct grammar upon your sentence, at least make it clear. But I highly doubt that you can express more complex concepts without using it correctly. I tried at some point (you could too, if you are curious enough) and of course, failed miserably. Only some people that know you in depth and you also know them in depth, can communicate in a more personalized manner of "language" with you. (And even then, many misconceptions take place that need more explanation upon explanation). You have to be in the same course of thought in order to communicate with someone. Be on equal grounds. That's where grammar becomes useful. It connects these courses.

    There are many artistic and more abstract ways of expressing something though. Lyrics, poems and other categories which I am not aware of. The rule limits get blurred. Maybe this might serve your purpose. (Or it might confuse you further).

    If you were to write a short piece, defying the laws of grammar, I might read it in case it was extremely inspiring and played nicely with my mind. If it was longer (a novel) I might get attracted by the weirdness in the beginning but I'd shortly get tired of trying to understand and leave it.

    I think that if you are willing to publish a book defying the grammar laws, you'd most definitely have to self-publish. You said you were an editor. What did your colleagues think of that question? Snoop Dog
     
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  5. writingone
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    writingone Member

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  6. Malisky
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    Malisky Fuzz Overdriver Contributor

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    Lol.
     
  7. froboy69
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    froboy69 Member

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    You know, I've wondered about this for dialog as shown above. I mean, I got criticized whenever I did short stories for my, "improper English" when I was only trying to capture a southern accent. It was actually frustrating when I was getting the impression that my overall writing was faulty...
     
  8. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    I try to have five sentences per five five paragraphs for a short story, is that possible? writing one
     
  9. deadrats
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    deadrats Active Member

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    Can you please stop writing your posts in bold? It's really annoying. And it seems like you need to read a lot more and really get a feel for what's being published.
     
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  10. Spencer1990
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    Spencer1990 Contributing Member

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    But...but...how else can he/she captivate us (readers) without bolding every word? :whistle:
     
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  11. Iain Sparrow
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    Iain Sparrow Senior Member

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    You are in fact correct, mostly.
    http://www.linguisticsociety.org/content/does-language-i-speak-influence-way-i-think

    Beyond syntax and following the rules of the road, I think it comes down to mastery of language. English is versatile. You can have two amazing writers, living and writing during the same time period, turning out classics, and stylistically be miles apart. Take two Jazz Age writers... F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway. One wrote hard, precise prose, the other is subtle and searching. I personally like Fitzgerald, absolutely can't read Hemingway's macho bullshit. But that's just me.
     
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  12. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    While words may "have many meanings", most words are pretty specific in their meaning. And where a word has several meanings, it's not usually grammar that sorts out what a word means, it's context.

    I lean against the wall.

    The man was tall and lean.

    Same word, different context, different meaning.

    As far as improper English when you're trying to capture a southern accent; if it's in dialogue, write what you want, what the character would say. If your character speaks in an ungrammatical way, you're highlighting his poor education, or the culture where he grew up. If you're writing the narrative in the same way, that's different, but may be OK if you're in first person. Otherwise, the narrative should be impeccable. All with the proviso that writing dialogue in dialect CAN be so accurate to a particular accent that the reader cannot understand what the hell you're saying (there's one glorious TV clip where an interviewer asks a local for his opinion only to receive it in a flood of local dialect that is totally impenetrable!).
     
  13. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Are you saying you have an actual learning disability?
     
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  14. Malisky
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    Malisky Fuzz Overdriver Contributor

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    Very interesting article. Thanks for the link. :) I began to notice a difference in my thought patterns, when I got more accustomed in speaking English. When I am alone and in no need to communicate my thoughts, I do not think in words. I'm still not sure about which of my senses are used to form my thoughts. Maybe, they switch depending on the categorization of my thoughts. Sometimes they may be images or colors, others sounds or notes, while others a blend of all of them. When I'm thinking about my stories it's very clear that it's a mix. Only when I start writing, I begin thinking with words, but that comes with a great deal of concentration, meaning it's not a natural flow of thought. (That is why I struggle so much when I write). When I'm with company and I have to communicate my thoughts, body language and habitual sentences kick in as well, so the flow of thinking in words comes more naturally. But still, I think that the primal form of thoughts are something like a sixth sense that is difficult to monitor because of their speed and complex subconscious nature.

    An interesting book I read about linguistics that is dealing with such matters is Umberto Eco's "Semiotics and the Philosophy of Language". Not exactly about the pattern of thoughts, but for example it may refer to meanings and changes in language (and specific words) and how a culture (and sometimes common knowledge) is influenced by that. I believe that a language is constructed under the basis of a philosophy and that's why it influences us in a deep "psychological" (I'm not sure if that word covers what I want to say. Maybe "mental"?) level.
     
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  15. Iain Sparrow
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    Iain Sparrow Senior Member

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    I haven't read any of Umberto Eco's other works, particularly his non fiction, but The Name of the Rose stands as one of my 10 most favorite novels of all time.
    Indeed both the book and the movie based on the novel have inspired some of the story I'm working on (but will have to write in collaboration), specifically how he deals with corruption and redemption in The Name of the Rose. What he does with two curious Monks, I wish to do with a convent of wayward Nuns. Though honestly, my nuns are a bit nastier than William and Adso.;)
    I don't want to bludgeon religion, just show it within the confines of a godless universe; that even without the engine of a real God driving it, it can, and sometimes is the worst/best we can be.
     
  16. Malisky
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    Malisky Fuzz Overdriver Contributor

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    I've seen that film too. Funny thing is that before I saw the film, I wanted to read the book, which I had, but it was written in Greek with tiny letters and the old poly-tonic system, so I couldn't... I just couldn't. Got to read it sometime though. I like Umberto Eco as a writer.

    :superagree:
     
  17. Iain Sparrow
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    Iain Sparrow Senior Member

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    If you decide to read the book you may want to search out the Folio Society edition (which is the edition I read).
    Aside from being a beautiful production of the book, the translation to English is about as good as it's going to get. It's not an easy read, especially the first quarter of it.
    It's sort of like a caged animal in that regard. You first poke it with a stick, pull its tail... than throw caution to the wind and climb into the cage with it.:)
     
  18. Malisky
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    Malisky Fuzz Overdriver Contributor

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    That's exactly how I like it. Hard, and as good as it can get. :p
    Now, I'm even more intrigued.
     
  19. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    Yes. I didn't understand grammar but now I do. I can write short posts but with long post's I loose creativity. I am thinking I should give up writing. I have dementia it's better I unsubscribe. Thank you for your understanding. writing one
     
  20. TheWriteWitch
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    TheWriteWitch Senior Member

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    Please don't give up! Writing is a wonderful way to note your thoughts, form patterns, and draw out memories. Writing forces us to slow down and consider what we are trying to say and I think it is a great exercise for everyone.

    There is strength to be found in going back over what you have written and trying to find the core of what you wanted to communicate. Read your sentences out loud before you worry about grammar. Think about who might read your words and what thoughts your sentences will bring to that reader's mind. Then group sentences on similar topics together into paragraphs. Think of a new paragraph as a change of topic or a new perspective on what went before.

    And there is beauty in short posts! This forum has great places for flash fiction and even six word stories.
     
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  21. Iain Sparrow
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    Iain Sparrow Senior Member

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    I can deliver on the hard, but the good as it can get got up and went a decade ago.o_O
     
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  22. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    NO!

    There is evidence linking mental activity to lower incidence of dementia, so keep writing, keep thinking of things to write, keep learning!

    You know the old song, One finger, one thumb keep moving, you'll live 'til you're 99?
     
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  23. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    I heard that as well. Thank you. writing one
     
  24. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Absolutely. Keep doing what you're doing and understand you are doing it for yourself.
     
  25. writingone
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    writingone Member

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    I love to write and see my words written. But I hear so many writers write about how to draw each reader into the writer's thoughts. Most of it comes from experience. That thought draws my attention as well. But I as a writer cannot read the readers mind. Ever writer and reader has there on opinions. I write from my experiences in my life. In writing, I am trying to communicate with others so I can understand better how to draw the readers attention.

    I have been drawn watching a movie at home or in a theater, and have asked myself if I could write like that, then I could say I am a writer. To communicate with another people it takes knowledge, like drawing a reader to their writing and where they could not stop reading. I am nowhere that closer to being a writer are a general writer than when I attempted to be one. I sense I am just rattling and thinking I can write.

    In my extreme state of, thinking I can write, I believe I cannot and it's just my alter ego pushing me on what purpose, I do not know. The word to impress others comes to mind, and the question, is why? Why do I try to impress others when I rattle (as I am doing now), the word psychology plus my ego come to mind. I am now rattling trying to prove a point that is unattainable for me? I call this piece rattling outside of knowing what I am talking about here. critique this, please. write one
     

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