Dealing with people who think your dreams of writing are unrealistic.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by TDFuhringer, Feb 6, 2012.

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  1. SunnyDays

    SunnyDays New Member

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    I've done some crazy things in my days.
    For a while people said what they thought and were concerned for me.
    Now it's as if I was better of now then I was then. I only work a couple hours a day,
    the rest of the day I am free to write. Mostly people don't bother me much.
    So do what you want and people will gradually accept it.
     
  2. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    To continue this subject:

    I was born with so many problems, doctors were convinced I would be dead within weeks.
    Then they said I wouldn't be able to walk, talk, read, write, and generally take care of myself.
    Then, a teacher said I wouldn't be able to make it to college.

    I'm 22 years old, going on 23, getting a driver's license, working in a volunteer job, in my fourth year in a university (with a major in history and a minor in English). I'm also working on a story.

    All this from a guy who they said would be dead within weeks from his birth.
     
  3. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Congratulations!
     
  4. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Holy shit! I am deeply impressed yagr. Good for you and your wife. Talk about inspiring :)
     
  5. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    I'd like to calmly and politely explain my response to Jack's post.

    @Shadowwalker: You are absolutely correct. My original post did imply making a living writing, and it was intended as so.

    Keep in mind this is an emotional subject for me. So I admit, I responded poorly to Jacks post. Sorry Jack. However, Jacks comments were condescending. Specifically the statement...

    The person who upset me most by their lack of support is 13 years younger than me and not wiser, though they have had some experiences (including with epic failure) that I have not.

    My parents on the other hand are both delusional cult members with serious mental illness. My Dad had one job his entire life and never did anything with his life but go to work, come home to eat, then sleep. My Mother never worked. I am an only child and ironically, now that they are both physically disabled, I TAKE CARE OF THEM, not the other way around. At 39 I've 'been around the block' more than they could ever conceive. They have lived sheltered, ignorant lives, refusing to learn even the most basic aspects of critical thinking, spouting their bloodthirsty beliefs at anyone who would listen and draining the life out of anyone who goes near them. They honestly believe I am Evil on par with the Devil and am going to be killed by God very soon because I do not share their religious beliefs. So when they tell me I should be serving God instead of writing, I find that somewhat discouraging.

    Jack was not aware of the situation when he made his comment, so his condescension is easily forgiven. But given the situation, I react very poorly to anyone who tells me my parents have my best interests at heart when I know for a fact they do not.
     
  6. topeka sal

    topeka sal New Member

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    Wow, TDF. If your parents are the people trying to discourage you, I think you just answered your own question. You do not need their approval and, from the sound of it, probably wouldn't even want it with the all baggage that comes with it. You are obviously a strong person to have been on that ship and not sunk with it. I know we all crave approval, especially from parents, but you've obviously grown into a very different person from them. I think you need to let this one go and trust yourself.
     
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  7. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Thank you so much for that.

    Yes, thankfully I have grown into a very different person than them. You hit the nail on the head with your statement, "let this one go and trust yourself". My Therapist would agree with you.

    I write because I have to. I also write music, make short films and explore any creative endeavors that come my way. Despite my artistic temperament, I am capable of self-analysis. My music is simplistic, and though making movies is tremendously fun and rewarding, I am not very good at it. Becoming a professional composer or a filmmaker are unrealistic dreams because I do not have the talent or skills needed to sustain them at a pro level. However, I believe I have learned enough of the craft of writing and have enough natural ability as a storyteller to purse writing professionally. Yes I know that few succeed financially. Yes I know it's hard work. Despite the enormity of the task, I believe 'Climbing Mount Improbable' is within my reach if I put enough time and effort into it. (Forgive the misuse of Dawkins's book title, but I love the phrase)

    So I'm going to try. I'm not going to stop just because people I care about tell me I can't do it. The purpose of this thread was to discover ways of handling the negative people, not their contentions or the impact of their contentions.
     
  8. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    The family background does indeed put a different spin on things. Of course, responses were based on what we were initially given, so perhaps 'mea culpa's on all parts are due and we can move on from there. :)
     
  9. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Agreed.

    Back to my original question which I will now restate more clearly: What do you say? How do you respond when someone whose opinion does matter to you, someone you don't want to upset or lose, criticizes your dreams of becoming a professional writer? How do you reason with them, if at all? What arguments do you present that you aren't, in fact, nuthouse crazy and have a better than average understanding of the field, your chances and the road ahead?
     
  10. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    TD, under those circumstances, there is only one way to answer: don't. You let 'em talk and keep your own counsel. At 39, you know what you want, why you want it, and probably how you think you're going to get there. You don't need your parents' approval. Yes, it would be nice to have. It might even be painful to do without. But if your life is a ship, then you are its captain, and as we all know, a ship can only ever have one captain.

    When my daughter was 4, she was diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Delay, a disorder on the autism spectrum. At the time, the accepted thinking was that if a child did not develop speech by age 5, (s)he never would. We got her admitted to a preschool for children with special needs, but only for September of that year, by which time she would be 4 1/2. My wife, a stay-at-home mom at the time with an MBA in accounting and a handful of undergraduate ed credits on her sheet, worked for hours every day with my daughter, and by the time school started, she had an acceptable vocabulary (my daughter, not my wife). She then told me that she was no longer interested in accounting, but decided she wanted to make working with disabled kids her career. It would require two masters degrees, which she went back to school and got. I supported her all the way. Degree or no, she was a terrible accountant.

    My in-laws, especially my mother-in-law (who never accepted my daughter's disability), were horrified. There was good money to be made in business. If she HAD to be a teacher, why not work with "normal" kids? Even late in her life, when she was lying in a nursing home, confined to her bed simply because she had one day decided to be, she made it clear how she felt, forgetting she had a granddaughter and sneering or making a face anytime my wife mentioned her work. She died last year, a bitter, bigoted woman who was a lifelong manipulator and couldn't stand to not get her way. My wife didn't shed a single tear. She purged the anger and bitterness, but it never would have occurred to her to alter her plans.

    Oh, and I should also add that she is arguably the very best teacher of children with autism in the entire NY City school system. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of her colleagues and the principals and administrators who come to her classroom to see how it's done.
     
  11. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    :D I am pleased by this! Ed, what a wonderful and inspiring post. And good for you for supporting your wife's desire to change careers. You are both very brave. Shame your mother-in-law couldn't see it.

    As to your point: You are absolutely right. I am going to have to do what I chosen to do and ignore negativity. Keeping my mouth shut, which will be hard, about my career plans will be the hardest part. I am a natural 'sharer'. But until I have something published and have been paid for it, perhaps silence is the way to go.
     
  12. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Thanks, TD.

    When you need to share, come on to the forum, here. Lots of folks to share with and, over time, you'll find you become friendly with a few in particular and kind of get to know them.
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Is there any chance that they think that (1) you quit your job purely because you wanted to work on your book and not for any other reason (which may be true; I don't know) and (2) you have no intention of getting a new job until you're published, or possibly have no intention of ever getting a job again because you expect to promptly make a full living from your published works?

    Because that would be what would worry me. Whether I thought your writing was fabulous and publishable, or lousy and unpublishable, I would _still_ be worried about the very low odds of actually making a living from it, and especially the even lower odds of making a living from it based on your first published book. I would feel a rather urgent need to make sure that you understood the risks that you were taking.

    So that may be how you can get people that you do respect, to shut up - make it clear that you do understand the risks. Something like:

    "I know that very few published authors make their entire living from their work, and that even fewer make a living from their first book. I know that of course I'll have to go back to work eventually. But right now I'm _choosing_ to take a gamble and take a few months to write before I start another job.

    OK? I know it's a gamble. I know that in this economy it can take a while to find a job. I know that there are risks related to health insurance or unexpected expenses. I understand the gamble I'm taking, and _I'm taking it anyway_. Getting published is that important to me, and right now my judgement is that without taking this time to get my book ready, I won't get published.

    I think that it's best if we don't debate this any longer. I appreciate that you're objecting out of concern for me. But now that you know that I'm looking at the risks with clear eyes, I hope that you can support me in my goals, even if you'd prefer that I weren't choosing to take this gamble."

    This is, of course, aimed at people that _are_ objecting out of concern for you. The people that you don't respect, that don't care about you, aren't entitled to this much explanation. For them, I'd suggest the old self-help advice "don't JADE" - don't Justify, Argue, Defend, or Explain. Don't even get into the discussion with them; shut them down with some variant of, "Well, Joe, that's my decision, and I'm not going to discuss it further."

    ChickenFreak
     
  14. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    All very good thoughts ChickenFreak.

    Everyone in my local circle knows I quit my job due abusive and racist behaviour on the part of my new boss. So that's no worry.

    I actually said something similar to that to someone a few weeks ago, with the added comment, "After job searching every day, I still have plenty of free time. Why not use it for writing?" That's an accurate reflection of my feelings.
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    One more thought: As someone who grew up with dysfunctional parents, though by your description less dysfunctional than yours, I find that I have a need to explain myself, and persuade others, that sometimes borders on the compulsive or irrational. I think that it's a result of growing up with a mother, in particular, who _chooses_ not to understand perfectly clear explanations, but who nevertheless continues to try to bait me into explaining again and again and again.

    It's as if I've spent my whole life with the unconscious, unstated, but nevertheless overriding goal to cement at least _one_ logical, rational explanation - I don't even care what it's about - in my mother's mind. At age 46, I'm finally realizing that my mother does not understand because she _chooses_ not to understand, and that she will never choose differently. But the urge to explain still fights its way to the surface sometimes, not just with Mom, but with anyone.

    I'm wondering if there's any chance that you're having a similar issue, a similar need to explain and persuade when there's no need for it. Even the people that you care about, and that care about you, don't need to actually agree with your goals, they just need to respect them. If you just stop explaining, maybe they'll be able to stop giving unwanted advice? Or, yes, maybe not.

    ChickenFreak
     
  16. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I've gone most of my life with only one serious supporter. When he died, I was set adrift in negativity. Nothing I ever accomplished was good enough, nothing I wanted to try was worthwhile (more bluntly, was stupid). All I could do was shut up and do it, knowing they would never be there, and keeping my father's support in my mind and heart.
     
  17. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    That sounds dead-on. Maybe I don't need to explain.

    @ Shadowwalker: I'm so sorry to hear that. Glad you are able to at least keep the good memory in your heart.
     
  18. agent99

    agent99 New Member

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    If your mind is set on becoming a writer and you have the desire. It would be wise to meet and interview a few professional writers and find out how they succeeded. At one time I was interested in becoming a lawyer. One of my law classes assigned us to interview at least three lawyers. I met some really nice and sharp people who were willing to share their experiences as to how they got started, the pros and cons, and what they would have done different. I learned allot from them in just a few minutes, I still remember our conversations, awesome!
     
  19. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Very good advice agent99. I did that in the past. I met Canadian author Margaret Atwood, poet Irving Layton, publisher Robert Nielsen. But I was young and stupid and didn't benefit from it the way I would now. Maybe I can go to a writer's conference in Toronto, there tend to be a lot of authors at those things. :)
     
  20. joanna

    joanna Active Member

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    I've enjoyed hearing everyone's stories related to this.

    I hate it when assumptions are made about people's parents; it's obvious to me that just because someone is old and created a child does not mean they are automatically wiser.

    At a young age I decided not to share my writing or ideas. I'm a pretty open person, but almost nobody even knows I write. That way, I don't have to justify anything.

    But I do like ChickenFreak's suggestions.
     
  21. TDFuhringer

    TDFuhringer Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks to everyone for your insightful and educational replies! I broke the 1K with my writing finally, as in, I wrote more than 1000 words in a single day, and they weren't awful. I've been writing every day and oddly it's not getting easier, but my results are getting better. There's a measurable improvement in just the last two weeks. I am certain with enough work and persistence I will make my goal of writing (or revising) 2000 words per day. Every day I actively look for ways to improve my writing. So I'm on my way to achieving my dreams!

    I am so grateful for you all and for this forum. Without a place to vent / ask questions / get feedback I don't know if I could have made it through this difficult period of growth.
     
  22. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    I think people will always feel threatened by other people following their dreams, even if they don't admit it. Part of it might be an honest concern that you won't make enough to live on but a big part of it probably is some weird kind of jealousy that someone else has the courage to do something they never did. I didn't see you saying that because I haven't read every post, but did you actually quit your job to go for it as a professional career? In that case congratulations! :)) I have been unemployed for several months after coming back from 4 years abroad, and it actually wasn't very stressful on me because I had so much time to dedicate on my writing, hehe. Now I've started working again, but atm just 30h/week so I still have most afternoons off and can still write a lot in my free time. I'd say go for it, and to those who try to discourage you just answer calmly and politely that this is your dream and you will regret it if you never gave it a serious chance. I guess I'm lucky in that sense, because my family always had great patience with me and my dreams, even when it meant I opted for a "career" without any future at all, and I'm glad they let me find that out "the hard way", because trying to convince me to do something else at that point would probably have failed anyway. I'm quite the strong-minded (??) type and do whatever I feel is right regardless what people might think. :rolleyes:
     
  23. art

    art Contributor Contributor

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    Many people can be dismissed: You can disregard the talk of idiots and scumbags. Idiots and scumbags are sometimes mums and dads and brothers and sisters. So it goes.

    Those that cannot be dismissed: Silence them before they have a chance to object. Be the sort of person - in your actions, in your talk, in your demeanour - who does not invite negativity. I'm coming over all Oprah Winfrey here but if you are bloody well determined, if you genuinely commit, then the perceptive will raise no objection. (Which does not necessarily mean they will think - or indeed should think - that you will 'succeed' but does mean that they will recognise the importance of it, will recognise that to attempt to stifle it would be crass.) If you do those things - are that person - you may consign those who still object to the idiot and scumbag pile. (Or, if that seems unduly harsh, the idiot or scumbag in regards to this matter pile.)

    The other side of that coin, of course, is that if you are merely playing at it, faffing about, then those who matter have every cause to raise objection (if you are acting self-destructively). And, just as a matter of practicality, properly committing to writing might perhaps mean taking a job that does not tax the noggin but still pays: writing requires a well-fed brain, endless coffees, light, internet access for Minclip pool etc etc
     
  24. FoulQ

    FoulQ New Member

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    Last year, catching up with my old friends, they were telling me about their important math/science internships and the plans they have after graduation. When I told them I wanted to work with words for a living, perhaps be a writer, they laughed at me, and the conversation turned somewhere else.

    The cocksure doubt that they and the rest of our career-oriented society constantly spew onto writers has inspired me more than anything else. So I take the negativity and harness it positively.
     
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  25. Allan Paas

    Allan Paas New Member

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    It's similar with me, the more I get opposed the more willing I am to make myself go further. Those who talk against writing tend to know nothing about it at all.
     
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