Do Miidle Schools have a right to Monitor your Facebook?

Some teachers take an interest in what their students do outside of school - sometimes out of concern, sometimes because they see the student has potential. It doesn't really matter - anyone could have seen it and pointed it out to the teacher as well.

Kids need to learn there are consequences to their actions. It will save them a lot of misery and embarrassment in the future.

 

The problem when you are dealing with a public school (as opposed to a private one, for example) is that they are a government entity and therefore the citizen's First Amendment protections come into play. So there is a limit to what the school can do in terms of regulating speech, or punishing it, and the school is even more limited when that speech takes place outside of school. I think it is important to think about how much control or power you want to give the government over these sorts of things. In my view, if the speech took place outside of school, then the school ought to have very little control over it and very little ability to punish over it. If one can demonstrate that there is a serious risk of harm at school at a result of the speech, I'd allow more latitude to the school.

If the Facebook page is publicly available, there is no reason whatsoever that the teachers or anyone else shouldn't be able to view it. But there should be definite limits on in-school punishments for out-of-school speech.

EDIT: Or I could simply have quoted ChickenFreak's post, above, which I agree with.

 

Well, not having seen the actual comment, but having been told that the school considered it cyber-bullying and the teacher in question was reduced to tears, I'd say that this was definitely something directly involving the school, and that there was reason for them to get involved.

Freedom of speech is not without limits.

 

Yes, if it is having that kind of impact at the school, then the school certainly has a stronger argument. Not to mention the fact that from a purely human standpoint, the students should apologize to the teacher for the end result.

 

But if the comment were made by an adult, and wasn't a credible physical threat, libel, slander, or part of a pattern of harassment serious enough to warrant criminal charges or a civil lawsuit, I believe that in the United States it would be perfectly legal - it wouldn't hit those limits. And if it was one of the above things, then the school wouldn't be the primary government body to deal with it.

I'm not comfortable with taking away a student's right to express himself just as obnoxiously as an adult, outside the environment of the school. The fact that he's expressing himself _about_ the school does not, IMO, turn the speech into in-school behavior. To me, this is the type of speech that we as a society are forced to tolerate, because if we don't then we lose a good deal of our freedom of speech.

 

Well, part of the problem with being a child is you can't do everything an adult can. There are more restrictions and for good reason. But, as I said, we don't know what was actually said, only what the impression the school officials got (cyber-bullying) and the result (teacher reduced to tears). That tells me that the school had a right, if not a duty, to get involved.

I know, I come across as less than sympathetic to kids, and possible tyrannical re: free speech. I'm neither in reality but like I say, freedoms are not absolute. And maybe I'm just a bit tougher because of being a single parent. (And no way would my kid have had open access to places like Facebook.)

If nothing else, hopefully these kids learned A) to keep private conversations private; B) to be clear in their public discussions so no misunderstandings occur; and C) to think about other people before they start spouting off.

 

We pretty much have laws against that sort of thing in Australia. Or, at least, we're trying to get laws against it. It's illegal for teachers and students to be friends on Facebook, for example, which might seem weird, but we have a lot of really cool teachers who we like to befriend.
When everything kind of blew up in 2009 with the situation I brought up on the first page, the consequence was that the people responsible for getting us into trouble (i.e. not us) got absolutely no respect for it. We did what we did, most of us under the presumption that it was a joke, and even though it was a "public" forum, our teachers had no right to be snooping around, especially with the help of someone who'd logged in for them.

 

Just to clarify, I have less than zero sympathy for bullying kids. If the bullying did result in in-school behavior in any way whatsoever, I'd happily suspend, expel, whatever, in a blink.

My concern is with maintaining freedom of speech overall. I can see that "kids don't have adult rights" is arguably a reasonable, limited-slippery-slope, clear line. But it just doesn't quite work for me; I worry about what slippery slope it is opening up, that I'm not seeing. So I'm certainly not saying that your argument is unreasonable, but it worries me.

ChickenFreak

 

Kids are learning how to be adults. It's like having a learner's permit to drive - they have to have someone already licensed along with them, making sure they don't run someone else over. They need to be shown what's acceptable and what isn't. I don't see it as any kind of slippery slope. Again, this wasn't the school prying into someone's personal diary, or hacking into a private account. If it were, I would be at the head of the line screaming foul.

 

Eavesdropping has always been wrong. It has never ever been portrayed as okay. But that's basically what these teachers are doing. They're eavesdropping on a conversation that doesn't involve them. I know it's not nice to talk trash about someone behind their back, but it's not like the person would have known if they'd kept to their own business.
But by looking at these kids' Facebook pages, these teachers are saying, "No, it's okay to find out what someone is saying, even when it's not your business. That's fine."
And all the people who say "well, it's public, not private, so it's your own fault"? They're all agreeing that you can justify any action we wouldn't permit in real life if it's on the internet.

 

So maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but you're getting in trouble not for making a comment, but for "liking" a comment on facebook? If this is the case, it's not really free speech at all because you really didn't say anything. You indicated your approval of something and nothing more (much like nodding or smiling at someone after a verbal exchange (this is not the same as you saying the comment yourself, but more akin to voting on something in view of others)). Of course, facebook takes that "like" and then publishes your friend's comment on your page too, doesn't it? I'm not very adept with how it all works and consider the less time I spend on it the better. Still, I don't see how anyone could do anything to you about that (other than maybe ridicule you), regardless of what or where the comment was.

Of course, facebook wasn't around when I was in school and computers were just beginning to become mainstream in our little neck of the woods. I'm sure my friends and I shared several verbal comments between ourselves that particular teachers would have found offensive. Still, that was among ourselves, and when it wasn't, when one was sly enough (which it didn't take much to be so) to sneak up on us when we were having our little chats, they usually realized we were joking, venting, coping, or some other such nonsense. They may have scolded us, but I don't think it ever amounted to much more than that (unless foul language was involved). I imagine making that the equivalent of facebook would have resulted in my friends and I passing a megaphone back and forth as we made our comments so that everyone could hear. In that regard, it wouldn't quite be eavesdropping if someone heard us, would it?

Do the schools have a right to monitor your facebook pages? Absolutely, if you make them public. In some lights, it can be looked at like publishing a comment in your local newspaper (or in your case, publishing a thumbs-up with your name next to a comment in your local newspaper). They have a perfect right to look at it if it's available for them to do so. Should they be able to take disciplinary action against you for whatever is on your facebook page? I don't think so. An employer, sure (though this is sometimes abused, too), but a school, no. They should be able to take some kind of action (request you remove the comment (or in your case, the "like"), request you apologize, notify your parents, require a class on social media, etc.). Parents should be in charge of the discipline on things outside of a school, and if the school doesn't agree with the views of the parent(s) on things outside the classroom, tough luck. Of course, I take a different stance if the comment and "like" were made at and during school, and facebook timestamps pretty much every comment or "like" made, so that's rather easy to figure out if one wanted to. Still, if detention is all you're facing, I'd say to just do your time and be done with it. I'd fight it if it came to suspension because in the scenario you mention, such a punishment would seem more like revenge on anyone associated with the comment than one to actually benefit you.

 

If you'll look back to my initial statements, I compared this to writing something on the bathroom wall. It's not eavesdropping if there's no intent to keep something private. It's like people who walk around shouting into their cell phones - is it eavesdropping when you can't help but hear what they're talking about? Eavesdropping is intentionally listening in on private conversations - not looking at the bathroom wall.

 

Yeah, this wasn't a private conversation. It is probably a good idea for any kids who think something done on a public Facebook page is "private" to be disabused of that notion before entering the work force. I have no problem at all with the fact that the teacher looked at a public page. Teacher's also have rights, and if something is publicly available on the internet there is no reason they should be restricted from seeing it. Anyone who doesn't want something they say or do seen by anyone else should not be doing it on a public web site.

That said, even though the teacher has every right to be looking, I do not think the school has a right to punish speech outside of school unless it creates substantial problems within the school itself, in which case the punishment should be narrowly-implemented to address the things that are actually occurring at the school and not more broadly to cover speech on Facebook.

I think Missouri passed a law saying teachers could not befriend students, but have already repealed it (or are about to), in the face of backlash from students, teachers, and parents, and probably in view of the realization that it was a stupid law that probably violates the First Amendment of those targeted.

Clicking "like" on a Facebook item is definitely a free speech issue.

 

It was reported from another student and they investigated on it. No matter how much privacy we put on there they will get ahold of it.. It's very scary.

 

Sounds like the page was still set to public, or else someone that did have access to it because they were friends with the page owner showed it to the school officials.

 

It could possibly, but he did told me someone showed it to the School. Ive heard other stories about the school digging into privacy settings and giving the students ECO's and Detentions. My school has faced a rash of suicides, one of them was for attenion and the other one was cyberbullying. I understand why they try to handle the whole situation, but it's becoming too much.

 

If it's that easy for people to "dig into privacy settings", I don't think I'd participate, period. There are other places more secure than that. (Have to wonder what FB's TOS is, that would allow that kind of invasion).

 

Whatever I think of school consequences for out-of-school speech, I do agree that it's pretty foolish to expect any privacy whatsoever on Facebook. If students want to communicate privately, they should be doing so somewhere else. If that spoils the point because they want the nasty remarks to be seen by a wide population... well, I _still_ think that it should be protected speech as long as it's outside the school, but it's in the category of freedoms that I begrudgingly, rather than enthusiastically, defend. Rather like I would defend the right of evil organizations to demonstrate even if they're evil, because stopping them opens the door to stopping anyone.

 

While there is freedom of speech, the First amendment doesn't protect slander(Which is what the school would be complaining).

 

Ditto on the profanity when you address children. Period.

 

Profanity or not, it doesn't matter. He disagreed with the school's notions, i'm not going to get mad at someone for swearing.

 

Please don't reignite an argument over a two-year-old post. It was a personal attack, and should have been shut down back then.

The only reason this thread returned to life was because a spammer used it to advertise spyware.

 

That's right kid....And I thought your original post showed a bright young person. I was wrong.....You're a very bright young person.

Step back a little further and enjoy being a kid. It's middle school school so remember why you're there. Stay focused on learning. Instead of talking anymore about this.....You mentioned your Science Teacher. Tell us something cool he taught you about science.

Class dismissed

 

I'm responding to something two-years old

Cogito.......Sometimes I'm so much dumber than I look

 

I'm not mad. Insane?.....You could argue that point quiet easily and win. I'll say you won this one because I'm a nice guy.

But I follow a few basics rules......This is one. So I declare myself the winner on profanity and children.

Pick another topic......Best 2 outa 3