Do you believe in love?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Marshmallow, Jul 19, 2009.

Tags:
  1. Necromortis

    Necromortis New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    California
    Not only do I not agree with your opinion, I actually found it relatively offensive. From what I gather, you've dumbed down the idea of love to something to hide sex (which while it is a factor, I don't think it's the entirety of it), and not only that, you blame males for the "downfall" of romantic love. You don't supply any reasonable backing for this point either - simply that women (in your experience) are quiet about their orgasms, and men (in your experience, again) are loud about it, and you've seen a lot of men "chasing tail."

    I would call to mind the millions of men who are viciously devoted to their wives and families, the homosexual men and women who are deeply in love despite being unable to procreate, and those who simply aren't able to procreate for one reason or another, who are still very much in love with their spouses. How does this fit your hypothesis that love is simply a disguise for sex?

    As a male, who is very much in love (and not just because I want to have sex), I find your point of view biased (maybe I am too though ;)) and incorrect.

    ~Christian
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Brightsmiles

    Brightsmiles New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Somewhere between the rabbit hole and wonderland.
    i'm sorry mm, but i felt much the same way as necro. i couldn't personally relate to any of that, and unlike him, i am a woman, a wife, and a mother.

    i think that arguing whether or not 'true love' exists is much the same as arguing if god exists. there will always ppl who say yes, and ppl who will say no, and ppl who will say only in certain forms, or place conditions upon it.

    i think there's been some amazing descriptions (wrey's in particular + a few others) and my vote is definately for yes.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. RomanticRose

    RomanticRose Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    New Mexico
    I have never been in love, and have certainly never fallen there. I am married and I love my husband. But we skipped that whole hearts, flowers and I-can't-live-without-my-schmoopy phase. I don't miss him terribly when he's not around, but I'm always happy to see him when he comes home. What we call love is based on a firm, deep friendship and enjoying spending time together. We can live without each other; we simply choose not to. It involves our work, our sense of humor, our untraditional way of looking at life, and probably no one else would put up with either of us on a long-term basis. The sexual attraction evolved from those things, rather than those things evolving to support the sexual attraction.
     
  4. KP Williams

    KP Williams Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    My place
    That's my idea of love. Personally, it irritates me whenever people use the "I can't live without him/her" excuse as proof of being in love. Yes, you can, but your infatuation is greater than your love if you feel that way. I think a major reason why so many relationships fail is because people try too hard to be lovers, snuggle buddies, etc. rather than friends. Some part of them gets sick of it and moves on. All because they didn't want to take it easy.

    I shouldn't have to point out that these are just my personal views on the matter. Whoops. Too late. :rolleyes:
     
  5. The Freshmaker

    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,783
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    St. Petersburg, FL
    This thread is just asking for a Huey Lewis and the News reference.
     
  6. Skwerly

    Skwerly New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Yucaipa, CA
    I know it is real, and I truly feel sorry for those who do not. It's out there, waiting. :)
     
  7. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    from kas...
    stalk away, k!... you're a welcome breath of fresh air and objectivity i'll be happy to have on my trail...

    but i'm wondering what it is you're calling 'a blog format' and why, since i next to never contribute to blogs and my site certainly isn't one...

    btw, while pretty much all of my philosophical works are written 'on the spot' they're not just 'thrown together' or mere 'train of thought' [though a rare few may be just a step or two beyond that] but are the result of decades of study, observation, experience, culminating in the need to spell out the facts as i see them, for others' enlightenment, should they be open to same... as you are/were, i'm glad to know...

    browse my site to your heart's content, amigo... you may find more of your own thoughts put into my words... and feel free to drop me a line if you ever want to chat about them... or argue a point here and there...

    love and hugs, maia
     
  8. bluebell80

    bluebell80 New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Vermont
    Do I believe in love?

    In the context of what the OP is saying, love requires trust, lust, and comfort. I agree with this to an extent, but only in talking about romantic love.

    To me, from a psychological stand point, there are several different types of love.

    Familiar love: The love we feel for family. This love is not based on trust, lust or comfort. We can not trust our brother or sister, we don't feel lust for them, and many times they are not comforting, but we still feel a devotion to them.

    Devotion is part of love. Even if we are estranged from our parents, children, or siblings, we still would come to their aid if they asked us. We still want to see their lives work out for the best. We want them to be happy. This is part of love.

    We can also have close relationships with our family, not just because of devotion, but because of shared interests and common past experience. This in turn brings the loving relationship out of just familiar devotion and brings it into the friendship love.

    Friendship love:

    Between the genders there is a big difference in how we experience love in our friendships. Men commonly feel the bonds of brotherhood, usually brought about through shared common interests and experiences. Men also have a capacity to love their male friends intensely. When trust is there, their bond of friendship won't be broken. But if the trust is betrayed, then the tie irreparably damaged. However, a difference between men and women, is that men will more readily forgive a good friend of a misunderstanding, or slight (one that does not betray trust) than women do. Men also don't have to communicate their emotions for one another, they simply show them through their actions.

    Women on the other hand, because we operate in such an emotional manner, we tend to tell our close friends that we "love them" in a family sort of way. But, because of our emotional ties, we tend to get more upset by small slights than men get. We might even break a long standing friendship because of said slight or emotional hurt. We don't forgive as easily. Women are also more likely to lie and betray a close friend than men are. Women do not feel the unconditional devotion to other women that men feel. We don't get that "Band of Brothers" attitude.

    With women, our female friend relationships can hold some jealousy and intense competition. This is evolutionary on our part. Women compete for the best men of the group. While a group of men might compete for women, they tend to still stick together as a cohesive group is more efficient when it comes to hunting parties (in an evolutionary capacity.)

    Friendship love is actually more complicated than romantic love. Because we develop familiar love for our friends, but it is not the same unconditional devotion we feel for our family. It is usually based on personality likability. The ties can also be more easily broken than familiar love.

    Romantic love:

    It can start out as mutual physical attraction (or lust.) But, it can also start out as friendship without physical attraction, or even sometimes contempt for a person with or without physical attraction.

    The physical attraction is usually what draws us to that person. Though sometimes situations can force together two people who don't like each other, but love can develop from that.

    Once we start to get to know the person, their habits, their behavior, even if we weren't physically attracted to them initially, we can become attracted to them through our attraction to their personality type and our shared common interests or past experiences.

    Once the romantic relationship progresses to a sexual relationship, our emotions change. Women and men both can become glamored into thinking it is love, other words they both can wear rose colored glasses. I call it the sex fog.

    If the sex is bad, then the relationship will usually not progress. But if the sex is good, despite the compatibility of personalities, we will feel like we are falling in love. We ignore things that might have sent up red flags if sex was not involved, and we progress with the relationship as if everything is great. This is where many relationships fall into failure later on down the road.

    A romantic relationship has little to do with sex in the long run. Most couples are like rabbits during their months or even year, but after that, the novelty of the sexual attraction wears off and we see the person for who they are, and sometimes we don't like what we see.

    However, if we are compatible enough, our common interests, our shared live views, and our personalities, we settle into a relationship that is one of the most fulfilling types. A person who compliments us, cares for us unconditionally, and remains devoted to us throughout a lifetime.

    Romantic love usually will retain the attraction portion, but it changes from the initial lust, the gotta have this person or our groins will explode. It evolves into a deep caring for pleasing the other person, making them happy, and sexually is part of it. It also extends to the general well-being of our partners psyche. We want to make them happy, so we treat them in a way that creates happiness for both of us. If one person in the relationship is too needy, selfish, or self absorbed, the other person will feel drained, and unloved. If both parties strive to create a loving, honest environment for the other person out of desire to make them happy, both partners feel loved, understood, accepted, and appreciated.

    Speaking in terms of hetrosexual couples (as I am not gay, nor do I have reference for gay relationships) men and women need different things to feel loved.

    Women usually don't realize that they control the tone of the relationship by how they treat their man. Men only need three things really, approval, affection, and appreciation. With these three things a man will be unconditionally devoted to his woman and give her all she needs. A woman who withholds any of these elements will end up with an unhappy man on her hands, who will not do a damn thing for her in terms of her happiness.

    Women need things different from a man. If she is giving her man those three elements, then from him she need to receive, attention, affection, accomplishment of tasks, loyalty, friendship, and shared experiences. Men are usually very receptive to giving these things when he feels happy.

    Deep romantic love can override familiar love (not including offspring.) If a man devoted to his woman, is confronted with a family member or friend who dislikes her, he will nullify the relationship with the family member or friends because his devotion lies with his woman now.

    Women are not quite as quick to dump the friends and family if they don't like her man. She will usually try to play mediator and get all parties to agree to disagree. Though some women will excommunicate family and friends over her man.

    The love a parent has for a child is totally unconditional. However, we don't always have to like our children's personalities, in fact we can completely dislike our children's personalities, yet still love them with fierce devotion. Our main goals with our children lie in assuring their survival and happiness. But it is a love tie that can never be broken. There are exceptions to this rule, when a person should not have had children, were not capable of caring for themselves let alone a child, are selfish, self-absorbed, or immature. These people can break ties with their children easily, abandoning them, or abusing them, because of their own mental issues. These are the exception to the norm.

    Overall I do believe in love. But, it is the elements of love, our behavior, our attitudes, our personalities, that dictate our emotions. The emotion of love is sometimes fleeting.

    Like a person in a romantic relationship that says, "I'm not IN LOVE with you anymore." means they never truly felt the devotion of love for this person. It has nothing to do with being "in love" as much as it does have to do with the elements of love not existing between the romantic partners.

    Love needs many things, caring, kindness, compassion, empathy, listening, shared experiences, common interests/attitudes/points of view, honesty (to an extent,) affection, appreciation, approval, and devotion.

    On a side note, trust is one of the illusions that we kid ourselves with. We can never fully trust someone. All we can do is look at what information is shared, behavior, and attitude. We will either have a gut instinct that we can believe what the person says, or not.

    All relationships can fail. All people are capable of lying, and some lying so well that you would never know it was a lie. Like cheating for example. Most cheated on partners had no clue, or they had some sort of feeling that something was amiss, but they would never have let themselves believe it would happen to them. I think this is the wrong approach. Everyone is capable of cheating. It is just a matter of if they would or not. Everyone finds other people attractive while they are in a romantic relationship, but many people can resist the temptation, because they know that it would hurt their partner and their main goal of the relationship is their partner's happiness. Other people don't feel the devotion to their partner, they feel they are not getting their needs met, thus they are more willing to indulge in their desires for another person, because they don't care if they hurt their partner -- in fact some hope for that in a passive-aggressive way to get out of a relationship.

    A final note: Falling in love in a romantic relationship is characterized by infatuation and attraction. This feeling is always bound to end at some point in the relationship, but is replaced by a deeper loving devotion if the relationship is destined to work out. Otherwise you get the phrase "I'm not in love with you anymore. It's not you it's me." and my favorite, "I never loved you."

    The last one there means they did feel attraction, but the level of loving devotion never bloomed in the relationship.
     
  9. Forkfoot

    Forkfoot Caitlin's ex is a lying, abusive rapist. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    54
    I believe in whatever that thing is where you want to put someone else's needs and desires before your own, and would die for them if need be. Call it what you want.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Gigi_GNR

    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    12,140
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I believe in love, definitely. Like you said, how can I not? I believe that love is just this soulful connection, on a deeper level than anything. I also believe in soulmates, although I heard a particular theory that just struck my fancy for no apparent reason: In this world, you have about 8 true soulmates, but they're all so widely spread across the globe you're lucky to find just one, and once you find that one, all the others disappear. Just a theory I like :p My parents just celebrated their 10th anniversary yesterday, so if you need an example of love, there it is. (They've made it longer than Jon and Kate, anyway xD)
     
  11. SonnehLee

    SonnehLee Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,112
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Far away from home

    Maia, I have a question for you. An honest question.

    Do you believe that adoptive mothers can love their children the way "real" mothers "do"? Or that a father who raises his child after he/she is abandoned by his/her mother is still loved more by his mother?
     
  12. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    'as much' perhaps, but not in the exact same way, since there isn't the bond of having grown the child in her own body for so many months, feeling it there and knowing it's part of her own self... and some natural mothers don't love their children for various reasons, so of course there are exceptions to any general rule...

    see above... same applies...

    btw, my piece addresses the basic nature of the various types of love, so doesn't get into specific instances and exceptions...
     
  13. nhope

    nhope Member Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    NH Seacoast
    Once you love, or fall in love, it doesn't go away. It remains forever in your heart. You can try all you want but you cannot unlove what or who you once loved.

    Ironically, the reverse works with hatred. You will find that the intensity of that initial hatred fades over time and gets to the point where it isn't even worth emoting over.
     
  14. Gigi_GNR

    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    12,140
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't know, because I have an adopted dad, and he seems to love my younger siblings (which are biologically his while I'm not) more.
     
  15. ChimmyBear

    ChimmyBear Writing for the love of it. Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    Florida
    I believe in love. It's selfless, unfainting, and never asks more than it's willing to give.
     
  16. Forkfoot

    Forkfoot Caitlin's ex is a lying, abusive rapist. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    54
    Hmm... ever been married?
     
  17. Mercurial

    Mercurial Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,451
    Likes Received:
    116
    What a cynical way to go through life. I feel bad for you and hope you change your way of thinking before you let the best of what life has to offer slip through your fingers.

    And why in the world would you ever want to do that? Love is infinite and boundless. All I know is that I make more every day, and I'm not exclusive in who or what receives it. The mystery of love is what keeps me going every day. I feel love for lovers, family, friends, my puppies, my creepy neighbor across the street. I feel it for my work, for qualities that make up people, even within people I loathe. There is always something good within them.

    I love that love is felt differently among everyone, too. There can be no limits or definitions.

    The fact that love is irrational, mysterious, compelling, and defies definition is what makes it beautiful. There are scientific labels you could put on it, and as a fairly scientific thinker, I could, but I refuse. It only takes the joy out of my life to think in such a cold and exacting manner about something so glorious. :) Love is life. To live without love is to be lifeless.

    The best idea of love comes from an annonymous author, and because love defies definition, I think this is the only static quality it has in all of us:

    "It is impossible to fall out of love. Love is such a powerful emotion, that once it envelops you it does not depart. True love is eternal. If you think that you were once in love, but fell out of it, then it wasn't love you were in. There are no 'exit' signs in love, there is only an 'on' ramp."


    I cant believe I let this thread go uncommented for so long.
     
  18. Dr. Doctor

    Dr. Doctor New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    I believe in love, but I don't believe it's "ever lasting" or anything like that, like Mercurial said. You can love someone for a night just like you can love someone for 30 years. I've always believed that love is completely undefinable and fluid, just a basic, general feeling that people feel that can never truly be described in words. This about sums my feelings up:

     
  19. sophie.

    sophie. New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    England
    I agree with this
     
  20. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    gigi...
    sad to say, that's often the case... and it can happen with either parent... seems to have something to do with 'pride of conception' or whatever you want to call it... it's also common in other animals, too, so it's not just humanity that prizes its own progeny over others'... it's a shame so many humans can't rise above that and love all children equally, as they surely deserve to be loved without qualification...

    love and extra hugs, your 'mamma'maia
     
  21. InAGreyWorld

    InAGreyWorld New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    what you said is pretty much what love is, i think.
    if thats not what love is, what is it that other people say it is that you dont believe?
     
  22. Gigi_GNR

    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    12,140
    Likes Received:
    257
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Aww, thanks for the support. Of course, not saying he doesn't love me, but he definitely loves them more. I've accepted it, sad as that sounds. Of course, it doesn't help that the man is a BRICK and doesn't show any shred of feeling. More often than not, I've wanted to go buy a brick and throw it at him. He doesn't understand the concept of feelings.

    As for love not being everlasting, I think it is, but you have to make it go on, You have to work for it. My parents just celebrated their 10th anniversary, and they're so happy together. But you can't just sit back and expect love to come to you in a relationship. You have to show it. Another reason why Brick (as I call my dad) and I get off on the wrong foot 99% of the time.
     
  23. nhope

    nhope Member Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    NH Seacoast
    I have. Why do you ask?
     
  24. Forkfoot

    Forkfoot Caitlin's ex is a lying, abusive rapist. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    54
    You've never fallen out of love? Even for a little while?
     
  25. Mercurial

    Mercurial Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,451
    Likes Received:
    116
    ^ I have no idea why there's a wink-face.

    You're assuming.
    What a horrible thing to assume.

    Love can hurt, and yes, I believe you can dislike someone while loving him or her; I certainly have --but that's the thing about it. Love is one of the most powerful emotions... and if you can fall in and out with the circumstances, you're in love with the idea of being in love, which is much less powerful than loving an actual human being.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice