1. lostinwebspace
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    lostinwebspace Active Member

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    Dog Ear Publishing

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by lostinwebspace, Dec 2, 2014.

    Has anyone dealt with Dog Ear Publishing before? I'm wondering how they stack up against Createspace. They seem cheaper, but their package descriptions are a bit lacking past the basic package, and I'm wondering if that's just my understanding or if they didn't structure things well. Seems I'd pay $2,000 extra for marketing only.

    Also, are they any good?
     
  2. Stephen Paden
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    Stephen Paden Member

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    Createspace is $500, no? It would depend on what you are getting for $2000. If you aren't even getting your book in print, I would say that it is a bad deal.
     
  3. Keitsumah
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    Keitsumah The Dream-Walker Contributor

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    I have yet to publish anything as of yet but I do have one comment on that website as a Graphic Designer:

    EW. Clearly they don't structure things well otherwise their website would not have an excess of four typefaces. The leading is completely off and would not have that many colors that clash soooooooo baddly.

    Ugh, sorry but if we were going off websites alone (which screams that their quality would probably be on the book cover itself) I'd say your money is much better placed in Createspace. They only used a three color palette and are a lot more consistent in their design choices.

    Then again, that's my honest opinion, plain and simple. Now they say: don't judge a book by it's cover, but in business, that's the whole point in order to be marketable. You've written a great story, now it's their job to make it's outer shell eye candy for your readers.
     
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  4. Stephen Paden
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    Stephen Paden Member

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    As a web developer, that site is horrible. Keitsumah is correct about the typefaces. However, this doesn't mean they are bad at what they do, just how they represent themselves. Again, however, if they represent themselves this badly, how are they going to represent you?
     
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  5. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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  6. lostinwebspace
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    lostinwebspace Active Member

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    You guys make good points. I think I'll pass on them. As for Createspace being $500, I think that's a basic package. I'd like to get a little more if I'm putting my thing in print through nontraditional means.
     
  7. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Do. Not. Pay. A. Self-Publishing. Company. For. Anything! Just don't do it. I have yet to see a single solitary self-publishing company that brings any value at all. Createspace is a PRINTER, not a publisher.
     
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  8. Edward M. Grant
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    Edward M. Grant Contributing Member

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    But they do offer various services, like formatting. Personally, I just do it myself, but some people may find that worthwhile.
     
  9. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Places that offer bulk services, do not offer good deals on those bulk services. A tiny bit of internet searching reveals far more cost effective solutions. If you want someone to take care of everything, why not just go with a reputable publisher?
     
  10. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    I agree. But, they do offer value if you look closer. I'm using Lulu for self publishing paperback version.

    Author House, Xlibris, Balboa Publishing, Lulu, are all printed out of Bloomington Indiana. Different marketing arms of the same basic company I think. They serve a valuable purpose as printers, not as publishers or marketers. They offer packages that include marketing, ISBN numbers, 10 or more printed books, etc.
     
  11. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    My advice is to take a look at what they're offering. Really look. Then just see what it would cost you to do it on your own. It'll be a fraction of the price, I promise you. You pay for a one-stop shop.
     
  12. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    The cheapest package I saw from Lulu (at http://www.lulu.com/services/packages) was $1K. The things of value that I saw in that package? (ie. the things that I paid people to do when I self-pubbed a book):

    The ISBN - free for me, but I think Americans pay about $125 if they buy one at a time?
    The covers - I paid $150
    The interior layout - I paid $50, but it was DEAD simple (all I wanted)
    The e-book formatting - I paid $50, but really could have done it myself if I wasn't feeling lazy
    One paperback copy - I think I paid about $12?

    This clearly doesn't add up to $1k, and I really don't think the rest of the services they offer add any real value. "Global Distribution" means very little, since just about any e-book can get global distribution and bookstores aren't going to be ordering copies of a book by an unknown self-publisher anyway. The rest of it just felt like fluff.

    If you're looking for one-stop shopping and convenience, and if you have the money to spend - well, you're obviously not alone, because these places stay in business! But I don't think it's a wise business decision...
     
  13. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    Being from the printing background, I tend to look at them as printers, which they are. If someone wants to buy their bundles, go ahead. At least it is some exposure. But, I see it more like you do. I buy individual services myself. But I've been buying and selling printing for years. Most people have little experience with it.

    What I like is their printing and individual book sales capability. Using them as my printing source, I can steer customers to them, where my book is offered for sale, and make a much better margin than sending customers to Amazon or the others. They supply the books to fulfill the orders through other outlets, or, I send buyers directly to them and make more. My family has a POD printing company and they can't offer a better arrangement. We were selling POD to NCR back in the late 70's. We are familiar.

    With Lulu, you can supply your own ISBN, or they can supply it for cheap. They offer ebook conversion, but I do it myself. I'd rather keep the cash. Marketing, I do my own. For about 200 bucks you can have your book set up to be sold through Lulu, ISBN supplied by them. They sell direct, and through the top sites. Sure, they can supply to books stores, but like you said, global distribution to bookstores is a long shot. If you hit big, you will have a capable printing company backing you up. Or if you have low sales, you'll at least have a way to meet demand without filling your garage with books that don't sell.
     
  14. TWErvin2
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    TWErvin2 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Another factor that should be considered when going with a company (Lulu, Lighting Source, CreateSpace) or any of the self-publishing and/or vanity presses is the retail price that potential readers will face when distributed through various outlets. This is true even if you end up signing a contract with a small press, or even a major publisher.

    In the end, your novels/books will be competing with every other one out there. Sure, quality counts, but a trade paperback that sells for $15.99 or $17.99 compared to similar ones at $12.99 or even $10.99, it's going to affect whether readers pick it up or not.

    It's easy enough to compare. Go to Amazon or B&N and compare prices of books published that will be the same dimensions (6x9, 5.5 x 8 or whatever) and close to the same # of pages, and same genre as yours. See those that are produced via Lulu, CreateSpace, or a small press (and even a large publisher) and compare.

    Most of the self-publishing/printers have a straight forward cost per book calculator based on size and pages, and type of cover, etc. as a guide to begin with comparison.

    Just getting it (your book) out there and then digging into marketing...a consumer's (potential reader's) cost can be an additional hurdle to overcome when it comes to the success of print editions.
     
  15. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    FYI: When they say they "distribute to bookstores" all that means is they fill the orders IF they come. Wanna know how much that costs at better printers like LSI? $25 a year. Createspace? Free.

    ISBNs? If you buy from them, you'll have them as your 'publisher' within the meta-data. Why? Because the only authorized dealer of ISBNs in the USA is Bowker (every country has their own dealer/provider). And if you're okay with them being listed as your publisher, then there are dozens of places you can get ISBNs for free (Createspace, Smashwords, D2D...)
     
  16. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    I agree that costs for POD are several times more than offset, but that doesn't mean you have to price yourself out of the market. POD costs between $3-$5 to print a novel.
     
  17. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Whoa, that sounds excellent! Where are you getting those prices? (or maybe I'm thinking of prices with shipping and handling included?)
     
  18. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    I use LSI and Createspace. I have one book that is 340 pages and I price it at $12.95 and that includes a 50% discount I give for wholesale orders. As for shipping costs, well, it depends on where the customers buy it. If I buy from printer, yeah, I pay shipping. If customers buy from retailers they pay per those specs. i.e. Bookdepository: Free shipping. Amazon: Free over $20 order. ... etc etc
     
  19. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sorry, I didn't follow all of that - but your 340 page book costs $6 to print at LSI or Createspace? Is that what I'm getting?

    (I have a 182-page book with CreateSpace that costs $7.58 to print, assuming that the "minimum price for this title" means the cost of printing...)
     
  20. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    No, The printing cost of a 340 page book is $4.80. Double that is $9.60, so that's the minimum price if i'm going to give 50% discount (and not make anything... which i don't want to do). So 12.95 means I make roughly $3 on each book sold.

    Also, I think you have something wrong wtih your CS account. CS and LSI are almost the same (cost wise) in my experience.
     
  21. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sorry, I'm still having trouble understanding. When I go to Createspace, I don't see the printing cost listed... all I see is the "minimum price for this title". Is the "printing cost" listed somewhere separately, or are they synonymous?
     
  22. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    On CS the "minimum price" is inclusive of 50% (or maybe it's 40% can't remember) discount that you MUST have with them to get expanded distribution.
     
  23. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    So where are you getting the printing cost number? (I'm sorry if these are clueless questions, I'm just really not getting this)
     
  24. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    The higher cost of POD books is a huge factor in being able to market your book. The price point is high compared to the longer press runs of a publisher. However, for example, one can purchase 50 POD books before a publisher could purchase the printing plates for one of their books, then they still have to print and bind and trim the job. Still, the cost per book for POD is higher, even though cost effective at the beginning.

    But if your books takes off by selling printed books there are options to print higher numbers in the future and reduce the sale price.
     
  25. swhibs123
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    swhibs123 Active Member

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    Just looked it up and see that expanded distribution = mandatory 60% discount. So that minimum price includes 60% margin.
    I am sure there is a place to see just printing costs (it is the price of the proof you order before approving the title). But I'm not at my comp right now and can't seem to log on to my CS account on my phone. Will update later. On LSI it's all very straightforward. you set your own discounts as you like.
     

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