1. TheFedoraPirate
    Offline

    TheFedoraPirate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    1

    drugs and nerve gas ...

    Discussion in 'Research' started by TheFedoraPirate, Sep 19, 2008.

    As part of my story one chapter was going to focus on a recreational drug being imported to the city that could be easily weaponized but I have no clue what chemical loops you have to jump through to relate a recreational drug and a nerve gas. I doubt it's actually possible but any chem majors out want to help me with what I should know to at least make it sound plausible (if only to those who don't know their chemistry)?


    (My original idea was to have a hallucinogen that could be weaponized and hope people would find "hallucinogen=weaponized hallucinogen" not too big of a stretch as they're both hallucinogens and that might help suspend the disbelief but it was beginning to sound a little too Scarecrow)
     
  2. lordofhats
    Offline

    lordofhats Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    The Hat Cave
    The only way I could think of to do it is that the drug is only deadly in high doses at a single moment, but in low doses has narcotic effects.

    Generally any nerve gas when injected into the blood stream directly has the same effect as the gas, but works much slower and requires a higher dose. Same with ingestion.

    If you were to smoke the drug, well, you're inhaling the burning fumes so...

    The reason gas is usually used is because inhalation through the lungs is one of the fastest ways to get chemicals to the brain on the red blood cells. Direct injection into the blood takes longer and may not be effective at all, and in general eating it can take as much as 100 times the regular dose to have an effect.

    It depends on the chemical make up though and I can't get into details about that.
     
  3. TheFedoraPirate
    Offline

    TheFedoraPirate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    1
    Interesting.

    Do you know anything about atropine? How soon after being exposed does it have to be administered to be effective? Does it reverse the effects of the gas or only stop them?

    All I could find from wikipedia and google searches was that it was often carried in easily injectable form for use in battlefields and that in the wrong amount the antidote itself could be deadly.

    I may not use it but it seemed useful knowledge in case I felt the chapter needed a "oh no, he inhaled a deadly nerve gas quick administer the antidote!" bit of added tension.
     
  4. lordofhats
    Offline

    lordofhats Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    The Hat Cave
    I wouldn't know. Nerve Gas is considered an Strategic weapon used in Unlimuted Unconventional Warfare (Bio-weapons, WMD's, and the like). I'm more a student of Limited Conventional Warfare (general combined arms tactics).

    Wikipedia didn't give much eh? I would assume that Atropine would need to be administered as soon as possible (5-10 minutes I'd assume) as Nerve Gas can do permanent damage to organisms very very quickly (though not necessarily kill). You might want to look up a local college and see if you could borrow a few minutes of a professors time... then again that might not be such a bright idea. War on Terror and all XD.

    You could do a search under general Nerve Gas, or Bio-Weapons. That might help. I'll look around and see if I can find anything.
     
  5. TheFedoraPirate
    Offline

    TheFedoraPirate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    1
    Haha, yes, "could you tell me about nerve gas? I'm, um, writing a book." *shiftyeyes*

    I'll try a general google search for Nerve Gas.
     
  6. lordofhats
    Offline

    lordofhats Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    The Hat Cave
    As I said I would, my master online researching skillz have dedicated some of my time to looking up some information for you (and for me. It's about time I studied some more into WMD that aren't nuclear XD).

    Nerve agents attack various nerve cells and disable the body and in many cases if exposed long enough, kill it. The antidote would need to find a way to A, block the nerves so the poison can't hit them (Atropine), or B bond with the chemical and make it less harmful or harmless (Pralidoxine Chloride).

    Apparently, Atropine was used in the Gulf War, and though it does block the effects of nerve agents, is itself incapacitating and deadly at high doses (explained by the fact its taken from Nightshade and other related plants). It's not generally used now because it causes its own medical problems. it's pretty much using an opposing poison to cancel the effects of another poison.

    There is also a drug called, Pralidoxime Chloride, that is much safer than Atropine, but takes longer to enter effect thus limiting its usefulness.

    Also, research is being done into producing anti-nerve agent, in genetically modified goat milk. Apparently people at risk of being exposed drink the milk and get the antidotes built up in their systems. That might help you.
     
  7. Scattercat
    Offline

    Scattercat Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Under there.
    There is a book called A Doctor's Guide to Murder and Mayhem which includes several chapters on drugs, both recreational and lethal. I'd recommend checking out it or similar tomes for guidelines on such matters.
     
  8. CobaltLion
    Offline

    CobaltLion Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I'm a Paramedic and they train us in Chemical Exposure events like that, so I might beof some help. When you're talking about administration of Atropine for exposure to NerveGas, your time frame is "Right the heck now!"

    You need to take that stuff very quickly. Also, it dosen't "cure" you of the effects. It only stops it from killing you so that you have time to get out of the exposure zone. (Depending on the situation you may or may not be able to do this.)


    To go along with the Atropine you also need to inject yourself with a material called "2-PAM-Chloride" to help counteract the effects. These are generaly suppled together in a military antidote kit called a "Mark-I" kit. The can sometimes be found on civilian emergency vehicles.

    Hope this helps, and just PM me if you have other questions I can answer.
     
  9. TheFedoraPirate
    Offline

    TheFedoraPirate Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sorry for the delay in reply, schoolwork has been eating my life.

    @Scattercat - Thanks for the book recommendation. That'll probably be helpful for a lot of things I write.

    @Cobalt - Thanks for the info, I'll be sending a PM
     

Share This Page