Edward Snowden runs from the long arm of the US

And your in-depth knowledge comes from where exactly?

 

Spin, spin, spin, as always.

First of all, here's the stuff you conveniently left out of your 'breaking news.'

In the document recently released, the reference to 'progressives' is in a different section than the Tea Party groups, and it doesn't direct employees to send the cases to a special unit, unlike the Tea Party cases. Even on the first BOLO released, from August 2010, progressives are listed under the label of TAG Historical, short for Touch-and-Go Historical, or issues that had been raised in the past. Tea Party is listed under Emerging Issues. Also, it has been found out that organizations that were pro-Israel were also targeted.

Secondly, the recent document referring to 'progressives' appears to refer to applications for 501(c)(3) status, not the 501(c)(4) status sought by many Tea Party groups.

Also, the former acting IRS commissioner, Steve Miller was quoted on May 17th as saying that progressives were not targeted and he was made commissioner in 2012 under Obama.

No progressive groups have come forward to say they were harassed the same way the conservative groups were. They were asked the content of their brochures, their prayers and had to fill out mountains of paperwork, only to wait months or years for even a return phone call.

Lastly, House committees are also probing IRS audits of donors to a group that backed the war in Iraq, disclosures of the confidential information of several conservative groups and IRS requests that anti-abortion groups agree not to protest at Planned Parenthood as a condition of receiving their tax-exempt status.

There is a mountain of evidence and confessions of direct, unlawful targeting and abuse of conservative organizations.

Don't tell me a couple words pop up a new document and everything is 'fair and square.' Get the facts and try to enlighten yourself and don't insult my intelligence by assuming I'm going to be fooled by any of your spin and lies.

...but this is completely off-topic, I just had to get the correct information out to people.

 

Interesting rationalizing, JJ. I'm sure the news with help focus the details in the next few days. As for being off topic, you brought it up, not me, telling me how outraged I should be.

 

Hey does this Edward Snowden stuff remind anyone else of Renegade by Styx?

It was the first thing that came to mind.

I'll post something more useful later when I'm less tired.

 

Are you all still missing the point of the original post?

Your govt (soon t be mine) is a laughing stock around three continents at least. It has lost all credibility amongst serious players like Russia and China and now Europe. Britain is your only ally and that's only because they've been caught at the same game.

And even with all your spying, on the whole world, you have no idea where this guy Snowden is. This is a lone guy, being aided by Wikileaks, who's ringmaster is also hiding on you in an embassy in London. He waves out the window everyday, conducts TV interviews everyday, blogs everyday, leaks everyday and laughs in the face of the West everyday and will soon be joined by Snowden.

So maybe lets get back to the OP?

 

Mod Note: Ok, I'm putting my foot down here, anyone who launches an ad hominem attack on another user because of the actions of their government, especally when they are not even directly involved, is getting infracted. No coming to me crying about it either, I'm giving fair warning now. I'm notifying the other mods to honor this too, if we can't act like reasonable, mature adults then I'm taking toys away.

No special privileges, no sweet talking your way out of it. I'm honestly not in the mood.

 

I read about the "Insider Threat Program" last night. Have you guys read/heard about it? It basically encourages government employees to spy on each other and report suspicious behavior to their supervisors. This has been going on for 2 years now. The funny thing is that it did nothing to stop Snowden.

 

It also reminds me of the similar song by Hed PE. (One of my favorite songs, too.)

I'll respect your decision, but those supporting their government inherently support its policies and deserve the very same attention in this post-Nuremberg era as the government.

 

Thank you. I was really ready to rip someone a new one, and I'm glad to pass on that.

 

[MENTION=1349]Cogito[/MENTION]: What you just said ( I won't repeat it) I don't think that's appropriate language or sentiment for a forum.

 

I don't see anything inappropriate. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

Well. I do. Threatening to tear someone a new rectum is offensive, not to mention a demonstration of brute force which we may be expected to encounter when we encounter Cogito. To me, as a forum member who is trying very hard to be observant of the rules, that kind of verbal violence is unacceptable. If you have a high threshold for trash-talk, good for you, I don't.

 

'Rip someone a new one' is commonly used phrase that a majority would not be considered offensive. If a phrase like this offense you so much, then I don't think the Internet is a good place for you to be.

 

You're far too literal. It's an expression, of the same ilk as reading someone the riot act, or telling them where the dog died. I won't debate whether the person I was referring to deserved to be told off so harshly.

If you were offended by the color of my language, not directed at you, I'm sorry about that. I was offended by ad hominem attacks that were directed at me, and there is a limit on how much of that I will quietly put up with, especially if other avenues are ineffective.

 

I see he's just blabbed about govt offices in Germany, France and Britain being bugged by the US as well as the EU offices since 2003. USA is pissing off a lot of countries right now.

 

So let me make sure I understand this. The US is spying on enemy nations, friendly nations, and its own citizens? Wow. Talk about being paranoid.

 

And you think these other countries aren't doing the same thing? Don't be silly.

All countries are merely fairweather friends.

 

Not silly enough to get caught obviously...

But when the US are trying to garner support for another illegal war it's not a good idea to get caught bugging your allies

 

Allies are allies not because of emotion but of mutual self-interest. Countries will feign outrage, but in the end it will be business as usual.

 

oh how the Ruskies would love to see a cold war between the US and the EU, the way Obama is going it will be him V the Rest Of The World and it won't be some charity football match and you wonder why America is being aid lip service, being scoffed at behind closed doors...

 

I'm sure most countries are doing it, but the US just seems like the most paranoid of the bunch, which makes sense considering it's the most powerful country.

 

You think if Snowden had landed at Heathrow, he wouldn't have been immediately put on a plane to the US?

Just because China and Russia snub their nose at an issue that is only of interest to the US, doesn't mean our alliances are any weaker.

Heck, just a few years ago the NSA was caught wiretapping Kofi Annan... Nobody cared then and nobody cares now because its assumed at this point that every government is keeping tabs on everyone else. It's par for the course.

 

If Snowden flew from Hawaii to Heathrow, he probably would have went straight to his friend Assange at the Embassy of Ecuador, If he stepped foot outside I have no doubt Cameron would send him straight back to Washington, probably would have personally paid for his ticket. Cameron is Obama's only friend.

I don't think getting caught spying on Russia and China is only of interest to the US and that picture of Putin and Obama at the G8 in Ireland shows you just how much weaker the US is. Obama went cap in the hand, on the back of the Snowden affair, looking for support to arm the Syrian terrorists and Putin told him where to get off. Without Putin he has nothing.

Maybe between govts they feign annoyance. The people on the ground is another story. The papers here in France are freaking out left right and centre, and by that I mean every party. The left even demanding a closure of the US embassy in Paris and pickets outside the APs. I bet you won't see that on CNN and protesters in Brest, Brittany, are planning to stop this weeks July 4 celebrations (that we have tickets for).

BBC news brushed over it but I don't think you realise how pissed off people are on this continent.

 

Because the outcry gets censored.

Because those who leak secrets in Russia or China get an early retirement.

There have been whistleblowers from other countries, but the stuff they made public was not that important compared to stuff like Wikileaks.