Every hobby costs somthing

I am surprised by all the debate about having to pay for editing, considering the op was only asking about a fair price.

 

Cheaper alternatives to Word tend to really mess up when you're working on edits. Word is industry standard, and the publishing houses send their edits back to you, marked up, with "Track Changes" turned on. The cheaper Word alternatives tend to make translation errors with Track Changes. I almost had to buy a better computer for my latest novel because it's quite long and with all the suggested changes my laptop could barely manage to open the file. There are expenses associated with publication, no doubt.

Well, the OP has said he views writing as a hobby and is willing to spend some money on it. So this isn't about me, specifically. It's about him, or about anyone else who isn't looking at the bottom line too closely.

And, really, I don't know that professional writers are judged solely by their paying credits. Even if they are, the ability to earn those credits is tied in quite closely to the quality of the work they submit. So if outside editing would improve that work? Might be worth it. Spending a couple thousand on editing if it's all that stands in the way of you earning tends of thousands on publishing? That might be a wise expense.

This isn't accurate. I don't think I've ever submitted an MS that hasn't had some straightforward spelling, punctuation, or grammar errors. I've been complimented by editors for "writing clean", meaning I don't make them catch all that many errors, but some? Absolutely, there are always some. And it's the job of the editors at the publishing houses to catch those errors. They look for bigger stuff too, but that doesn't mean they don't look for little stuff.

To clarify: I don't recommend paying an editor. If you're self-publishing I absolutely think you should, but otherwise? You have to look at your writing and your finances and give it a lot of thought. But I don't think you should refrain from paying one just because of some arbitrary rule about not paying one.

 

Please exclude me from this unfair generalization.

If a story's got promise, a plot, a style, I'll pass it. It's up to the editor to reject for "any excuse" or return it for editing. If I do reject, I'll give a reason, and that's never been for poor spelling or grammar - unintelligible spelling or grammar maybe!

 

This sounds a bit like a story written by committee.

 

To be honest with you, I'd just ask the editor you wanna hire if she would point out grammatical errors as well as stylistic and pacing faults - two birds with one stone. The elements of characterisation, plot, structure etc are not simple "performance upgrades and modifications" - they are essential to a good book. These things aren't "upgrades" - things that would be good to have but it works without. In essence you're saying, it's okay if the tires and engine and bolts and nuts of the car aren't quite professional, but please let a professional clean the car! It's all looks and no substance, and that's unwise. It's not a choice between a cheap tire and a better tire, a lower horse power or a higher horse power. When it comes to structure and plot, that's a choice between a working tire and a flat tire, a working engine or one that's broken. Your car won't run.

If you think your book would float and be enjoyed because there're not grammatical errors, you're wrong. Think of the millions of crap published books out there - traditionally published ones that've had an editor behind it. English grammar and spelling aren't why those books failed.

I'm not against hiring an editor - I find it odd so many writers would be against it. It's an investment like any other. But there are wise investments and poor investments. Editors are expensive - hire them to do what you cannot do yourself. And trust me when I say, it is much easier for you to spot a SPAG error than it is for you to spot a plot or structural error.

 

So even though this thread got off the main question I have something to add. I spoke with my editor friend (she has a masters in English and apparently is pursuing her PHD, and interned with a publishing house (no I didn't ask which one I am sorry)) and the price I would be paying includes her picking apart my story, plot, pacing and everything every concerned member here mentioned. I understand that some of you are against hiring editors and i can respect that. If it doesn't get picked up by a publisher i plan to self publish, so it is important i don't publish crap.

 

It might be worth making a distinction between proofreading and editing in this discussion.

The editors I've worked with have provided detailed advice, corrections and guidance on issues far more complex and integral to the story than spelling or grammar. Whilst I can effectively proofread my own work, I cannot perform the services of an editor by myself.

 

It's always nice to get another set of eyes on your work--I think having friends or family give you feedback is always helpful! My friends and I frequently read over each other's writing. I've edited manuscripts professionally for a lot of people too, and keep in mind that many editors also consider themselves writers. It can be hard for them to keep their style and voice out of the process unless you ask for nothing more than a straight proofread. Make sure after all these processes are done you are able to hang onto the soul of your work : )

 

Maybe because I'm not a starving artist, I'll invest whatever I need to. I have faith in my novel. I just went through the first half of it, the half that has been thoroughly edited. I absolutely love it, have confidence in it. I know I'm not finished, but if I'm satisfied with the chapters I consider finished or close to finished, I can do the same to the rest of the chapters.

Five hundred dollars? That's nothing. It all comes down to faith in one's work.

 

So be it. What else matters that much to you?

 

I am in total agreement with @B93 here. A copy editor proofreads a story for things like punctuation mistakes, spelling mistakes, grammatical mistakes and typos. A content editor will check for overall story flow, continuity errors, character development issues, pacing, etc. These are two different things entirely.

Writers will have varying skills in each department. There is no reason that somebody who is confident about grammar and spelling issues should pay a proofreader. They can do this themselves ...BUT it takes tons of time, lots of persnickety attention. You really must be prepared to go over your MS in entirety several times, preferably in several different formats.

At the moment, I've done my line-by-line corrections, and have formatted my novel to go into my Kindle documents, so I can read it on Kindle. In the new format I'm still turning up occasional mistakes ...mostly spacing errors. As a result of editing a few lines, I now have an occasional small mistake that looks like a grammatical one, but is simply the result of changing one part and failing to change the other so they match up. This is after meticulous editing that has gone on for months. It takes a long time to get this right, but I can do this. I have confidence in my ability in this direction.

What I could NOT do on my own was see other types of issues that needed overhaul. Story flow that got stuck. Things that made sense to me, but didn't make sense to my readers. Bits that seemed to need more explanation (or less) in order to get the meaning across. Parts of the story that dragged or irritated people. Character development that seemed inconsistent. (This can happen in a long story, because the focus may change during the writing, and what seemed unimportant at the start is now very important, and the whole thing needs tweaking.)

I've had SO many beta readers give me such quality feedback on these issues over a number of years, so I won't be hiring a professional to do what they've already done. I'm talking between 30 and 40 people ...I've lost count, actually. I've got a pretty good idea now, what works and what doesn't. However, if you don't have more than a couple of beta readers to give you great feedback (and whatever you do, don't count on just one) then you might do well to hire a content editor to read your book as a 'reader' would, and give you that kind of advice. This person will NOT be scouring for typos, but will look at the overall structure of your story and give you feedback and suggestions to make it better. With any luck, they will not be a person who wants you to write a different kind of story, but make sure this matter is clear between you, when you hire them. Let them know what you want your story to accomplish, and let them help you accomplish it.

We all have strengths and weaknesses as writers, proofreaders and content editors. If you feel weak in a particular area, no reason you can't pay for somebody to help you. But just make sure the person truly WILL help you, before you pay out lots of money.

 

First, I don't see writing as a hobby, I see it as a profession, but I do understand that some people do but my next comment might be influenced by my view point so wanted to clarify that.

1.10 a page is first, a weird way to quote an editing job - usually it's by the word or by the hour. Second, it depends entirely on what level of editing you're getting. It would be crazy-cheap for a developmental or line edit. Pretty cheap for a copyedit, and expensive for a proofread.

 

I disagree, thirdwind. Who do you think edits books for major publishers? The author? No. TEAMS of editors do it. My books that are trade published go through like 10 rounds of edits with teams of no fewer than 7 editors having had their hands on it. A self-published author, like the op is, can not duplicate that experience without deep pockets. However, they should TRY to get as close to it as their budget allows. Knowing the basics of how to edit, and knowing how to be a professional editor are two very different things. Professional editors have skills and education that are very difficult to duplicate. Not just experience, but continuing education obtained by attending workshops and seminars a couple times a year where editing conventions are discussed, and where changes to those conventions are learned.

 

You do TEN rounds of edits?!? Who's your publisher?

 

"I" don't do that many for my self-published titles. I would be broke a million times over. I do 3 passes with my own stuff. But with my trade-published stuff it's so many passes it's crazy. The last step it's printed out a few times and taken home and read hard-copy to do a final check for errors. The acceptable number of errors with stuff put out by top trade presses is "zero to one error" according to every editor I've ever worked wtih. Any more than that (and yes, I know it happens) and someone's getting an ear-full. I know there's this idea that trade presses don't edit like they used to, but that hasn't been my experience, or the experience of any author i know.

 

I'm only seeing self-pubbed stuff on your website - you trade publish under a different name? Was that the publishers' idea, or did you decide it on your own? (Sorry for going off-topic, but I'm hybrid myself and always interested in ways other people manage things)

 

Happy to answer, but do you mind if I PM or email you (can you PM on this site?)? Don't want to derail this thread. ETA: might be easier if you PM me