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  1. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Falun Gong

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by lastresort, Feb 2, 2016.

    Have you heard about these Chinese people who have been persecuted, tortured and killed for their belief? I am still in shock after watching a documentary on YouTube. And then many of them used for their internal organs including hearts? People needing body parts from overseas have turned to China, even though this country doesn't have a volunteer donor system. The Chinese Government have refused to talk about this and are extremely touchy when the subject is raised. This is a huge human rights abuse issue. Worse than what ISIS is doing, someone said.
    It is outrageous and I think there should be much more media coverage. But we depend too much on China, economically. Is that the reason this story has almost been ignored?
     
  2. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Unless we're really at odds with a country, we don't hear anything.
     
  3. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, actually there has been a fair amount of reporting on this over the years.
     
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  4. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Yeah but why isn't it headline news? I'd like to see it on the front page or the first item on the news. I feel like we are just putting our heads in the sand because it doesn't affect us directly. Picture this:
    (Chinese Prison where Falong Gong inmates are in forced labour camps) "Hey Buddy. You can stop doing that job now and come with us. We really need that heart of yours. Sorry it's going to cost your life but think of it this way. You're going to earn the Government 160 000 American bucks! And we don't have to feed you anymore! It's a win/win situation for us. "
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  5. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think it has been headline news, at least where I am. It was biggest maybe ten years ago, but it's been mentioned lots of times since then.

    Part of the problem is that this is just one of many issues with China's human rights records, and one of many issues with human rights around the world.

    Being persecuted for the practice of falun gong has resulted in refugee status for many new Canadians - China is our second-biggest source of refugees, last I heard.

    It's horrific, but I don't think it's unknown, generally. Maybe one of those weird little bubbles where information somehow doesn't reach you, even though it's out there?
     
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  6. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    In a previous job, every Saturday I would drive past a man or woman sitting opposite the Chinese embassy in London, and every time I'd think "I have to google that and find out why". Eventually I did, and found they were protesting against this. I think they had been doing it for eight years at the time, and nothing had changed. If I hadn't seen the protesters, I would never have heard of this before or since. Very sad.
     
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  7. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    All this, and we still buy Apple products that are produced in China. We are worse then them because deep down we just don't care.
     
  8. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    @Raven484 Speak for yourself!
     
  9. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    It's interesting. In the news right now, India is going to re-examine decriminalizing gay sex. Not till today did I even know that it was illegal there. For whatever reason, and while both are considered "democracies," Russia's laws are far more well known despite its less severe legislation -- as far as I understand the matter, anyways. A lot of countries put a premium on saving face and take it as a big insult to draw attention to what the Western world sees as regressive governance, and any prominent media source knows that they cannot pretend they have unlimited political capital in mentioning these things, as that would strain relations with the state and advertisers.
     
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  10. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    I think I pretty much speak for most people here in America, this story is pretty much not in the news so it must not be deemed important. I think it is messed up, but Obama and the media feel its not newsworthy. If Obama and the media cared about human rights outside of this country, then it would be big news. Maybe someone should tweet it to Trump, then it would get attention. Seems like the only issues discussed today come from his mouth anyway. You didn't even know what the problem was until you googled the protesters. Seems like its the same for most of the world.
    As long as China builds our toys, they are pretty much free to do as they please. Sad, but fact.
     
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  11. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    During the Xinjiang uprising a few months ago, the Chinese government massacred over 100 Muslim coal miners while they slept. Not much came of that situation either. Even the Wackos are afraid of the Chinese.
     
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  12. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Thanks for your replies. Much appreciated. Well, it hasn't been made a big deal of in Australia. The main news we get about China is economic. They caused a huge mining boom here through demand for our natural resources such as Iron Ore. But now the boom is over. And apparently they've contributed to huge real estate booms in Sydney and Melbourne. It's like we are afraid to upset the hand that feeds us. I'd love to see a really detailed investigation into this and expose this government for what it is going on. I've got a feeling the whole story won't really come out for decades. Like the suffering in China during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural revolution.Tthere must be some angst-ridden souls who feel so much guilt but have to turn a blind eye in order to survive themselves. I know for myself, I wouldn't have the courage to stay true to a religious belief. I heard that if you are prepared to renounce your belief in Falun Gong, you are free of harassment/punishment. Not worth losing your body parts for that, in my opinion.
     
  13. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    That is diabolical, isn't it.
     
  14. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Exactly right. I'm sick of hearing about the latest coming out of Trump's mouth.
     
  15. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I don't think you speak for most people at all. The average person has absolutely no say in what the media focus on.
     
  16. Raven484
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    Both stories above have been mentioned briefly in the media. Not one sanction has been imposed on China. Not even a mention of a sanction. Both stories probably lasted less then two days and went away. Meanwhile, here in America, lines form around the corner for the latest gadgets made in China. If you went to these lines and told the people what was going on over there, I would put all my money on no one leaving that line. Its sad, but its true.
    I can speak for most people here in America, I live here. Our Government and media has everything turned so upside-down right now that we basically don't care about anything anymore.
    UK is probably different, I have no idea. One thing that was in the media that was broadcast here was that the UK had a meeting to discuss not letting Donald Trump into your country over his beliefs on muslim immigration. How come that was serious? Why didn't they meet to shut down the Chinese embassy over these crimes?
    As long as any nation needs something from the other, a blind eye will be turned. It's sad, but its the world we live in.
    One thing I have noticed the last ten years is how critical people are towards America. You guys follow everything we do and then criticize us.
    I hate to say it, but 99% of Americans who watch BBC channel here only watch it for DR. Who and Star Trek Next Gen. reruns. We couldn't care less what's in your news. We have a hard enough time dealing with it here.
    If you came to New York and stopped 100 people and told them what was going on, you would get one of two responses.
    "What's your point?"
    or
    "Oh, that's terrible". As they walk by and go about there business.
     
  17. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    How is this tied in to Obama?!? The persecution of Falun Gong practitioners has been going on for a long time - since well before Obama came to office. See, for example, a letter written to President Bush in 2002, and Bush apologizing to a Chinese leader for any embarrassment caused by someone protesting the attitude toward Falun Gong in the US.

    According to Wikipedia, the persecution has been going on since 1999. So, Obama's indifference? Not really. American indifference? Maybe, although, again, it's been covered pretty heavily. It got a Time magazine cover, for example, has an entire index heading at the NY Times, was mentioned in a 60 Minutes interview with Jiang Zemin, etc. etc.

    Seriously, I love Noam Chomsky as much as the next liberal, but sometimes it's not the media's fault when we don't know what's going on.

    And, OP, you may want to read the a scholarly article about Falun Gong, which suggests that the situation in China isn't quite as black and white as your YouTube documentary may have led you to believe.
     
  18. BayView
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    Dude, google the media coverage! It's been all over. I have no idea why you haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been there!
     
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  19. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Yep. Maybe it's the media sources people choose.
     
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  20. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    In addition to the sources mentioned above, NPR has been covering this since at least the late 90s. I've seen enough coverage of it that I thought it was more or less commonly known in the U.S.
     
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  21. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Google expect too much personal info , in order for me to read that academic pdf. a shame as I wanted to read it. thanks.
     
  22. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Or old time-y British mystery shows like Poirot, Miss Marple, or Midsummer Murders. :p

    But seriously, yeah, 99% of us Yanks don't watch BBC for the news. :p :D We usually focus on our American news media and, well... depending on the media source, some of my fellow Americans may not be getting the full news.
     
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  23. BayView
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    That's so weird - it let me read it with just a click!
     
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  24. lastresort
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    lastresort Banned

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    Maybe Google already have all the personal information from you they need, being an American citizen.
     
  25. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Even the hills have eyes... :wtf::bigeek:
     
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