I also think another reason why fantasy cliches keep popping up because most of the writers are probably fans to typical books like LOTR and D&D, or even Star Wars. They known those plots for so long, that is all they can think of when they start to write their own novels. Both writers and readers are so familiar with those stories, it hurts them when they try to do something new. However, George R. R Martin took the typical medieval style and made it more character driven than a LOTR wannabe. It takes time to come up with new ideas for fantasy, but new ones will happen soon.
That is very true. I love fantasy and certain fantasy writers but for a while was disgusted that every story idea I came up with was a clone of my favourite authors. I just wanted to get them out of my head but couldn't. And I'm still disgusted when a character appears in my milieu who appears to be lifted from the pages of something I've recently read. Maybe it's a compliment to those authors who've created characters and settings so compelling that they wont say die, but it does make it harder to have [more] original thoughts in your head.
George R.R. Martin is medieval with that hint of fantasy... which is why it's so amazing. Plus he takes every cliche and tosses it out the window. I write fantasy and have managed to avoid almost all fantasy writing. I dabbled in Harry Potter (Low Fantasy, closer to what I write) and I've read A Song of Ice and Fire, but that's about it. I beta read one fantasy story and I liked it but otherwise I haven't touched it. I watched Star Wars (if that counts as fantasy?). I've never read Lord of the Rings. I actually have it in my room on my shelf. Once I feel that my story is separate enough from all other fantasy I'll read it but until then I'm not touching it. The closest I've gotten is watching the Hobbit movies. I honestly think that if more people do this fantasy would be more diverse and refreshed. Rewriting Lord of the Rings and A Song of Ice and Fire over and over again will only kill the genre, like rewriting Star Trek and Star Wars is killing Science Fiction.
I actually haven't read LOTR or D&D or Harry Potter I'll agree there is a ton of crap fantasy. But not per say because of use of magic or dragons, et cetera. I think it mainly falls to generic plotlines being so overused. Some books almost seem like they just move a few events around and change character names from other books. I like writing fantasy that doesn't use the clichés like most do. Do I have dragons and magic? Yes, but not typical dragons and magic. I like dragons and magic thank you very much, but reading a knight slaying a dragon every time gets really boring. I'm writing a story with a dragon as a main character. But it is set a little bit in the future (~200 years more or less). Humankind is mostly dead because of a plague that originally killed dragons but humanity tried to turn it into a weapon against other humans. There are some newer (unintentionally created by humankind) species. What makes the story fantasy is the gods and their involvement and some minor magic use on occasion. It is difficult to not rely on common tropes, but it can be done. 90% of any genre is crap writing anyway. The other 10% is of variable quality.
For those seeking a refresh on Fantasy Fiction, I would suggest anything by China Miéville. Particularly his first novels Perdido Street Station and The Scar. I would also highly recommend his book The City and the City.
I must say that the words "Cliché" and "Overdone" are cliché and overdone. Be careful when you say "There can be no dragons, no magic, no swords, no bows, no kings or kingdoms, no maidens or knights...yeah, that's the fantasy I want!"...to bad it's not fantasy anymore. Fantasy has more tropes than any other genre. Your goal as a fantasy writer should be to put your own unique themes in, your own unique villians and heroes (maybe the line is a little gray on the difference between them...) as well as a unique plot and if someone doesn't read your book because your villain is a dragon or because the hero is a knight...whatever to them. Innovation and a unique story/characters makes a good new fantasy novel. Simply avoiding the tropes of the genre does not.
I just call it being excessively picky. In fact my high fantasy novel would come pretty close to having the requirements of that previous post, but it still technically has magic in it. Instead of dragons, it has Shifters. Magic... well it's called a Soul Symphony or Soul Surge in my book. As for swords and bows... yeah kinda have to have that....includes a gemstone sword, dagger, ring, and necklace...as for kings and kingdoms at most there's the ruins of destroyed cities,and one city having been taken over by the Shifters, but they are led by the Alpha...as for maidens and knights LOL. Horses are pretty much extinct, as well as most farm animals. Does have one incident with the MC riding a giant wolf though... *shrug* but then the main point of fantasy is to get creative. I've read plenty of fantasies with all the common tropes and enjoyed them immensely. In fact I'm planning one out to try and write after ive finished the other bajllion books i've got in my writing qeue
Back your argument up. I think it's sheer nonsense to exclude a work simply because it has fantasy tropes. According to this theory, "A Song of Ice and Fire" is TERRIBLE. Kings and kingdoms and dragons and swords, BLECH! Yet...George RR Martin is stinking rich and the most recognized fantasy author today.
I didn't argue in favor of that. You can read exactly what I was quoting from your post to see which statement I was responding to. It's generally considered wise to read properly before you reply.
@archerfenris @Steerpike While I agree with the main point of archerfenris' post, Steerpike is right that archerfenris is wrong that a story cannot be fantasy without dragons, swords, bows, kingdoms, etc. Medieval-inspired elements are just some of many ways to incorporate magic "things we consider impossible in reality" and a sense of otherworldliness in a story. (I generally classify space operas, especially Star Wars, as fantasy.) But the point still stands that just because fantasy technically can avoid those elements does not necessarily mean it should avoid them.
Yep. You can have good fantasy that incorporates those elements. Fantasy doesn't have to have them, though.
I could go along with this. I was just trying to argue for what Daemon just explained. I suppose I accidently said one can't possibly have fantasy without those tropes, which obviously isn't true. I often forget about Urban fantasy and its ilk, not being a reader of it myself. What's difficult about this is fantasy is such a large genre. The left and right most limits of fantasy are so radically different it can be a wonder they're considered the same "genre".
