No, I didn't mean does the character in your story have to be female - I meant the character in the similar stories @BrianIff was trying to come up with. Your story is about an ambitious woman. But if BrianIff's looking for similar stories, he doesn't necessarily have to limit himself to other stories about ambitious women. I don't think there's anything so unique about ambition in women that ambition in men could be looked at as a useful example.
@BayView Oh, I see. But, there is a strange standard where men are expected to get the woman/women they want and it's approved and encouraged. While if a woman gets a man, depending on how it's perceived, it's demonized because she is no longer "independent" or that the "need" for a man was pushed unto the character.
I'm not speaking from an equity-for-men standpoint or something, but, I, for one, think it'd be good for everyone if it was made more clear there's inherent problems in most pursuits of power, rather than leave the potential open for some people to think that men are more likely to compromise their ethics in power's pursuit.
Well, if you want to start talking about double standards, we should both get comfy, because we're going to be here a while. But in this case, I think you're talking less about the issue of the woman getting the man she wants, and more about the woman getting the man she didn't want. But then, contrary to your thread title, it sounds like we're not really talking about romance at all, not talking about any characters "getting" any others, so... I think the whole thing is moot, isn't it? I can't imagine anyone having an issue with a woman making peace with a former rival. Can you?
@BayView Well, let's just say, I expect her to have some warm feelings for him and eventually marry him because of a dumb bet (And a grab for power) but finding herself oddly happy about the arrangement. I'm just worried someone might think the powerful woman just needed a man to break her >.>
Yeah, you should definitely avoid that trope. A lot of us are very sensitive about it, having seen way to many of those forced kisses turning all hot and steamy in movies and books. Why does she need to break if she comes to like the guy? She can just stop being [fill in the blank with how you've written her].
She isn't going to be broken or anything of the sort. I just fear someone's going to see that just because she dared to make room for a bit of love in her heart >.> Like I said, silly fear. It helped a lot just to talk it out and see how silly it is. I didn't write her that way, so people who actually read the black on white words will know what truly happened. Let the idiots spam my goodreads with "failed female character" comments where I'll reply "Oh, I'm sorry you feel that way."
A plot in which a woman is deprived of control over the most important decisions of her life, but is happy about surrendering to others' control, is a very old and problematic plot. Maybe that doesn't at all resemble what you will create, but I'm not yet seeing a difference.
Geez, where did that come from? Did I accidentally mention the wrong things somewhere? She is not deprived of anything. She's just a token candidate in an election so everything appears PC and inclusive while fighting that very notion to try and prove that she is far from just a token candidate.
The part where she's getting married to the guy against her will (but secretly not so against her will). I don't feel like we're really getting anywhere with this, do you? It seems like you've got a good idea of what you want to write, and you're either not presenting it clearly or we're not understanding it clearly, but nothing we're saying in response seems to match what you want us to say, so... Write it! Make it brilliant!
That mostly came from her marrying him due to a bet. That sounds like a lack of choice in marriage, to me.
@ChickenFreak @BayView Oh, I see how that came off. And actually, this helped quite a bit. Sure, the whole picture isn't there. I can't give you a step by step post of what happens in all... eight? of her chapters without basically posting the entire thing. I just wanted opinions and notions people caught so I can be aware of what could be and might be on the page. So, when I reread her sections, I can keep a critical eye out for things that don't flow the way I want them :3 (And in the end, he tells her to forget about the bet. Win or lose, he just wants her to be friends at the very least. He admits to being a bit of an ass trying to get her when he knew she didn't feel the same as he did)
Just go with this. I'm sick and tired of making a huge stink out of what a female character can and cannot be in fiction. You will not win no matter what you do, someone will always complain because you haven't met their personal character writing standards. So my suggestion is: write their relationship the way it'd naturally progress based on their behavior and interaction, something you of course dictate, no matter how "controversial" the outcome turns out to be. Just an example of what I mean based on what little I know about your story: (so let's call your characters Mary and Pete). 1) Mary campaigns for Queen and Pete laughs at her banners because they're pink. Pink is Mary's favorite color because it reminds her of a pet pig she got from her now deceased dad for her 5th birthday. 2) Mary tells Pete to mind his own goddamn business thank you very much. 3) Pete has two options now: apologize or leave. If you make him apologize, something he may have never done up until now, Mary might think "well, there's still hope for that doofus" while Pete has made the decision to be more supportive and treat Mary with more respect than before because, surprise surprise, he has matured, it's just that this time his dickish hypercompetitive side got a better of him. But lo, it won't stop there. Pete decides to make amends -- it's never too late, is it? So he looks for others ways to help Mary, whom he considers a friend (and a potential lover/fuck buddy, because why not), and while at first Mary may be on guard and wonder what got into Pete and why isn't he so annoying anymore, after a while she starts to think he really has grown up. So she gives him the benefit of the doubt and also wants to build a friendship with him because that's far less stressful than being bickering enemies. But what then? This is where half of your readers will go like "Gah, I hope she won't fall in love with that weasel 'cause that's so unoriginal plus she's a strong independent woman who don't need no man" and the other half is like "it'd be so cute if they fell in love!" Maybe there's a third option you can use to surprise your reader? Maybe when she becomes queen, she will take him in as a lover concubine somesuch, no strings attached, and he's okay with that 'cause sex is sex is sex. Maybe he dies of the plague and she's like "I wish I had gotten to know him better. He could've become a lifelong friend." Maybe they remain frienemies. Nothing wrong with that. Both can still learn life lessons over the course of your book. Maybe there's simply no spark between them, but they learn to appreciate and respect each other and from there on in help each other out, support each other, and keep company to each other as true friends or BFFs, so it's not like you will completely pander to the She Don't Need No Man -audience for fear of Goodreads bullying, but you also give a chance for the dude to redeem himself and be a better person, just like I expect she has been no angel either and has a few things she'd need to apologize for. So what I'm saying is: rather than thinking what others or Goodreads will think, go with what feels like a natural next step to their relationship. I know there's a lot of advice out there as to how you should or shouldn't write women (and for a reason too), but I get the feeling you won't suddenly turn her into that blonde chick from Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (if you don't get the reference, just watch the movie, it's quite fun apart from that horrendous blonde chick) and she'll actually be an enjoyable character to any reader who's more interested in the story than applying feminist theories to every single thing they read.
I wish I could give @KaTrian 10 likes instead of just one. The simple fact you may want them to end with each other doesn't mean it's a silky smooth road. You can make various things happen in between, including having them involved with other people. Of course, the middle needs to be written so that the end makes sense, but if you think those characters can end together, by all means go for it. Author's statements are called Word of God for a reason, you're your book's God and can do anything. Personally, strong independent women bore me as much as helpless damsels in distress if not more.
