Fifty shades of grey made into a movie

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by cazann34, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    As long as there are no internal monologues then there's a chance it could go well. I'm unfamiliar with the work of both the director and screenwriter, but I'm still interested in seeing how it comes together. I think the biggest flaw of 50 Shades of Grey is the narrative, rather than the content - so, at the moment, I believe it could go either way depending on the direction the film crew decide to take with it.
     
  2. UnrealCity

    UnrealCity Active Member

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    That's exactly it.

    People who are in the life-style and practice safe and consensual BDSM dislike the book and obviously the author didn't have a strong grasp on the various and unique dynamics of BDSM relationships. I only read part of the book before I had to put it down... I am hoping those who had or have any interest in BDSM at all didn't or don't get misguided by such crap, and have found reasonable and safe information on the lifestyle, and have a clear understanding of themselves and their limits.
     
  3. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Right, like every story doesn't have female characters with impossibly hot bodies and everything going for them as well. :rolleyes: ;) :p

    But in this case, I'm with Terra, I find Christian really unattractive.

    The author had a huge fan base before the fanfic was written as a book. I'd say it's more like, "as long as you can demonstrate marketability." Of course you might say 'tell a good story' is why something is marketable and I'd agree.
     
  4. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    [MENTION=12200]Terra[/MENTION]: If I understood correctly, you haven't read the book, but you only read a few targeted excerpts from a blog? It's unfortunate if so, because it has probably ruined a perfect light entertainment. I read a couple of rambling blogs demonising the book, and that's actually what made me pick it up, to see for myself. It was cringeworthy from get - go but it hooked me straight away. After I read it, I was pretty shocked that anyone could misinterpret it so much to think it's dangerous, but, for any survivor of trauma of domestic abuse, it may trigger unwanted symptoms. But there's no physical danger, just a very messed up person (or three), with deep-seated issues, sadness contrasted with glamour and overall silliness and a happy ending.
     
  5. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Wow, they can't be serious! How are they going to make it non-porn? Won't it kind of lose some of its substance? Or 98 % of it anyway?

    Makes me wonder if the author has ever even known a dysfunctional, unpredictable, abusive, violent and able-bodied guy? They aren't attractive, they're scary (of course they can be attractive before you learn they are dangerous dickheads).
    Though, I do admit, I might be more sensitive to the issue than the next girl.

    On a sidenote, I went to a sex shop last Sat and to my horror, came across 50 Shades toys. Who buys them?

    I wonder if that's a self-fulfilling thing: many many writers say sex scenes are hard to write, so they must be hard. But before I read they are difficult, I didn't realize they were difficult. Now I have a sex scene block which I didn't have before. "Luckily," there isn't much sex e.g. in our (I write with T.Trian who's also here) current WIP.
     
  6. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    So, they're remaking 9 1/2 Weeks?
     
  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I think the secret to writing good sex scenes is to personalise them, just as you would any other scene. What makes a sexual encounter matter between two characters? (Or three or one or whatever!:p) Concentrate on how they feel during the act, about the act, before, afterward, the circumstances, each other, etc. And avoid being cutesy-coy with words. A penis is a penis, not 'his manhood.' Urk.

    And be aware, there are lots of people out there who will get the vapours anyway. The 'closed-door' brigade. Well, geez. Sex is such a huge part of most of our lives, and is the most intimate thing we ever do with another person. As writers, closing the door on it is a mistake.

    In my humble opinion...
     
  8. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    I fear the fact that I'm not timid is the problem :D I've read that some people's reaction is that it sucks out the romance out of the scene if the author writes it as it is. I also become overtly critical -- or paranoid that whoever reads it, thinks I've self-inserted or something. And then I produce nothing. Good thing T has no creative blocks in that regard...
     
  9. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    I often wondered about advantages and pitfalls of duet writing, since it's such a rare situation. I wonder whether having another person to rely on, allows you to avoid developing certain skills, which you would otherwise have to if you were writing on your own? Do you see yourself always writing together or do you have solo projects as well?
     
  10. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    We have our own strenghts, like his strength is dialogue and mine is description, but sometimes we decide that "hey, you could try to describe this for practice" or "how about you write this dialogue without my help."
    Yes, it allows you to avoid development, and it depends on the writer whether s/he is willing to develop those skills or not. I can whip up a sex scene, but as explained, I'm super-critical over it and think it's crap and pretentious or too in your face or detailed or vague or whathaveyou, and this insecurity blocks the potential for writing better. T has no blocks or insecurities on that regard, hence he produces better prose, imo.

    I should write like a friggin porn version of one of our manuscripts for practice... :eek:

    ETA: and yeah, we also write alone for practice or just for sh*t and giggles, but the other revises those tidbits anyway. We're strangely comfortable about displaying our works to the other...
     
  11. TerraIncognita

    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    Ain't that the truth!

    Yeah, peoples' behavior has a very strong bearing on how attractive or unattractive I find them. This also seems to extend to fictional characters for me.




    She probably has not. If she had I highly doubt she'd be romanticizing it. Yeah same here. For me it's not the sexual aspect but the whole "I'm going to control you via intimidation and exert my strength over you whether you want it or not" thing that's upsetting.

    Because of experiences I've had I don't feel protected by men who are a lot bigger than I am, I feel threatened. Once I was hanging out with a guy friend who was considerably larger than me I was shaking the entire time. I didn't even realize how nervous it made me until then. I felt bad because he was a perfectly nice person. It's just weird what things can set you off. Realistically I know my s/o could overpower me if he so chose but he doesn't dwarf me and I trust him so he doesn't scare me. He's also had experience with being on the receiving end of abuse and he has an intimate understanding of it which is also helpful. I don't understand abuse being romanticized because it's hellish.

    LOL That is something I want to know but I also don't want to know! :p



    The blog I was reading about it has a chapter by chapter break down with many excerpts from each chapter. The woman doing it also includes good and bad parts and has no problem praising the parts that are good. The problem is that the book constantly vacillates between consent and no consent. There will be one passage where the mc will stand up for herself and state what she wants or that something is not okay and as soon as the guy says anything she totally backs off of it. The power dynamic mirrors an abusive pattern because there is a distinct lack of eager consent on the mc's part. The guy repeatedly threatening violence and essentially stalking her and not giving her an out is super creepy. Again, it would be different if she seemed more into it but I just was not seeing that. The mc seems consistently uncomfortable, distressed, or flat out afraid. :/
     
  12. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    I'm sorry to hear that. It is strange and sometimes scary what kinds of things can set off an unpleasant reaction. But it's also wonderful you have someone you now feel safe with :)

    I understand there has to be a degree of violence and danger to 50 Shades too 'cause it has the whole S/M theme (again, though what little I've read, the author has done very little research to the practice), and some people are super okay with it. Horses for courses and all that.

    Maybe a really good movie-maker could turn a mediocre book into a meaningful film.
     
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  13. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Had to chuckle over this, KaTrian. Yeah, people WILL think you've self-inserted. Just keep that green grin on :D and keep 'em guessing! Why they should think you've done ANY of this is a TOTAL MYSTERY, hey? But you self-insert into everything you write, don't you? It's called imagination, visualising, whatever. Obviously how you feel about the potential act will come across—but how much of it you've actually done yourself? Keep 'em guessing, I say.

    As far as the 'romance' goes ...it'll be there if you stick to the feelings the characters have for one another and how it affects what they're doing. It'll vanish if you just end up describing the act. I've read some sex scenes in my life that made me weep with empathy for the romance behind it, for the feelings of the two characters involved. Conversely, I've read some scenes that do actually seem unconnected with what has gone before, as regards the relationship.

    I'd say just try to stay inside the heads of the characters as you write, and forget what readers are going to think afterwards.
     
  14. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    :D
    The skill to visualize is certainly important. I remember having been blown away by a gay scene written by a straight virgin. It was a really nice combination of emotion and action and utterly believable.
    Thanks, that's pretty much how I try to approach it. Damn, I can't find this awesome blog post by one published male fantasy writer (presumably straight also) which was about sex in the fantasy genre. It was so funny. He had the tendency to insert the author into the scene and found it rather horrid when reading novels by authors like George RR Martin. This confession somewhat "ruined" the next novel I read, which was Kill the Dead by Richard Kadrey. The author's pic is in the inside cover and the MC is 1st prsn male... I'm over it now, but damn you imagination, damn you.
     
  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Ha ha! So ...are we waiting for Brad Pitt to write a sexy novel?
     
  16. chicagoliz

    chicagoliz Contributor Contributor

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    It's been known for quite some time that they were making a movie, and I'm sure it will be quite successful. I think this is one of the rare instances where the film cannot possibly be worse than the book.

    I thought most of the sex scenes were ridiculous, sometimes laughable. The book was not well-written. But she was clearly able to tell a story, and it is somewhat of a fairy tale romance.

    If you want to write good sex scenes in fiction that's not erotica or romance, there's a book I found helpful called How to Write Great Sex. Really, you need to focus on the feelings and thoughts. (Also, as I've suggested before on this board, if you want a chuckle, google the Bad Sex in Fiction awards.)
     
  17. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    @K.Trian: Thank you for explaining it. I guess it's one of those things that works for you and it's great that you found that perfect writing partner. Oh and ps. girls are always better at writing sex scenes, it's true ;)
     
  18. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    This in bold is almost word for word what you can read on most '50 Shades' bashing websites. I keep hearing this, and having read all 3 books, I must say that it simply isn't true. They are misinterpreting a psychological drama that results from falling in love with a guy with problems. This is the problem with not reading the book yourself, you don't have a chance to make up your own mind.

    I'm a feminist. I'm also very sensitive to issues of abuse, and I can say with complete confidence that there was no issues with consent in the relationship between the two protagonists, whatsoever. This is why I was so puzzled. As if one person read something into it that wasn't there and reacted violently on the internet, then a whole bunch of other people who haven't read the book at all got convinced by the arguments and all of a sudden, there's this outcry based on gross misinterpretation. I've spoken to a few people who were passionately against this book, never having read any more that 'excerpts' and an accompanying commentary by someone who thought the book was evil, lol :) I don't aim to dissuade, of course, but I kept being curious at what is it they're seeing and I'm not, and not one person who was bashing it actually read it.

    A book like this is an easy target for 'moral outrage' (I am putting it in quotes to indicate the hypocritical variety). It's written by a woman, it's about sex from a female perspective and it explores a relative taboo (bondage). I wouldn't be surprised if a jealous competitor (or someone else with issues) created this hoo-haa just to spoil it for the author. But in all honesty, the book is just chic-lit.
     
  19. chicagoliz

    chicagoliz Contributor Contributor

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    Jazz is right. You can have issues with some of Christian's behavior, and in some places it does seem like he is insane, Ana really has quite a bit of power and is always free to walk away. She ends up changing him and gets everything she wants. She is not as powerless as the critics claim.

    Part of the problem is that this book (these books) is not realistic. So, it is true that most actual people who behave the way Christian does would be dangerous and not someone to get involved with. There is also the dangerous theme in the book that, with someone who has endured some significant psychological and emotional damage, particularly during early childhood, that if you just love them enough, they can overcome that damage and everything will be okay.

    So yes, there are problematic elements in the story. You really have to suspend disbelief and grant a huge artistic license to even get through the story. But Ana isn't really in a submissive role -- one of the big criticisms out there is that she signs this "contract," but in the story she never signs it. Although it was a condition of entering into the relationship, Christian decides to go ahead even though she won't sign. She always only does the things she wants to do.
     
  20. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Sex scenes can be tricky if the genre or age rating of a story is restricted, but if there are no restrictions, to me, the key is to write what is arousing to you personally (that is, if you want the scene to be arousing). Just like when writing a horror scene, if you aren't horrified with what you write, you can bet your reader won't be either.

    Then again, there's a "sex" scene in our current WIP that's supposed to be disgusting and horrifying (violent sexual abuse that leads to serious bodily harm). I read Victor Malarek's book "Natashas" which is non-fiction about human trafficking, particularly East-European girls sold into the States, Western Europe, and Israel. Some of the things described in the book, things that were done to some of those girls were so terrible that they made me want to address the issue, so I took some cues from the book and wrote the scene which I still don't like to proofread because it makes my stomach turn. To me, that's a sign that there's a chance some readers will feel equally revolted by the scene (which, in turn, means the scene works and I've achieved my goal, i.e. to bring to the reader's attention just what kind of sick shit is going on in the world... and that sexual violence is never, ever okay, cool, or sexy).

    Okay, I'll stop with the OT now. :p
     
  21. AVCortez

    AVCortez Active Member

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    There is, as far as I know, no classification system in literature. You can write a YA novel and jam pack it with erotica - I doubt a publisher would touch it, but with the youth these days with their 50 shades of iPad and internet cassette twitter apps, who knows?
     
  22. Gigi_GNR

    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

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    This makes me laugh so much, and I feel it'll be the next Twilight - making a lot of money while being panned nearly universally.

    I hated the books for several reasons, but the two most prominent ones were 1) they're terribly, horribly written novels, if you could even call them that, and 2) they misrepresent the BDSM lifestyle to a horrific degree.

    BDSM's #1 rule is SSC - safe, sane, consensual. For people that engage in it, from lifestyle to every now and again only in the bedroom, it's a very in-depth process that involves a lot of communication to make sure that both partners are safe in what they're doing, sane in their requests of each other, and consensual for every act. It's not just tying someone up and beating them up, it's a process with a lot of communication and effort to find out what both partners like and don't like and using that knowledge in a positive way. 50 Shades took that and shit all over it - the relationship in those books is borderline nonconsensual and the author didn't bother to do any research into what any of BDSM actually entails.

    That's pretty damaging, too, beyond it being "just a story." Anyone who reads the books and is freaked out or weirded out by the BDSM only adds to the societal idea that people who enjoy such a thing are "messed up" or weird. It gives people who don't like the books ammunition to demonize others' lifestyle choices with. Society tends to view BDSM as this shameful, weird thing and it's not that way at all, and these books have set the entire community's progress toward more open-minded acceptance back a long way.

    It's also dangerous, because there are probably people out there who are going to read these books and want to try these techniques out for themselves. But because these books are a very inaccurate representation of BDSM, these people are going to be going into it completely wrong. BDSM places stress on things like communication and safe words, so that anyone participating is always safe and comfortable in what they're doing. 50 Shades had no mention of communication or safewords; it's just "let me tie you up and do what I want to you and you have to take it." So instead of going into BDSM with proper knowledge, these people are going into it thinking "oh this is the right way" when it's not, and that can end up seriously wrong. They have a lack of communication and safewords and the like.

    Think of doing a potentially dangerous task for the first time, like operating a blowtorch. Before you start, you get instructions on how to do this and how not to do that, so you don't hurt yourself, right? Now imagine having those helpful, correct instructions replaced with vague, unhelpful guidelines, or no rules at all. There's a significantly higher risk of hurting yourself. It's the same principle.
     
  23. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    This was actually another point that I was planning to make based on what I've read about the content by people who have a better command over the English language than James, but then thought, meh, I shouldn't bash a novel I haven't read (any more than I already have).

    I don't think a novel like Apples is classified YA even though it's about teenagers.
    Jonas Gardell's novels aren't in the library's YA section even though they are about teenagers.

    Why? For one because of the amount of profanity, sex, drugs, and alcohol.
     
  24. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    [MENTION=12161]Gigi_GNR[/MENTION]: The thing with 'BDSM lifestyle' you are referring to is that it's presented as one lifestyle, with rules, written in triplicate, and anyone who deviates from it is 'misrepresenting'. BDSM scene, lifestyle as proscribed in formal descriptions of it, is one thing, and real people are quite another. I'll bet you right now that there are thousands of people world-wide who more or less successfully deviate from the official BDSM etiquette. Every human activity is unique in some way, and I have no problem with a weird arrangement portrayed in the book. Like you said, the poor writing in places was much more upsetting :D .
    The relationship wasn't something that I'd engage in, but I found the exploration of passive-aggression in it's various forms throughout the book very interesting.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, I would hate to think that everything I'm writing needs to be checked against various official codes. My stories would quickly become very boring. In fact, I'm deliberately twisting an activity I know a lot about, simply because I need a different version of it for my story. I hope medical profession doesn't come down on me like a ton of bricks because I misrepresented it ;)
     
  25. IronPalm

    IronPalm Banned

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    I think it's more comical than anything. Especially the women who want to get into BDSM as a result of the book. For me, it was a quick and easy tell on which girls to avoid.
     

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