1. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Fighting Games

    Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by T.Trian, Feb 28, 2016.

    Now that Street Fighter V is generating a lot of buzz, for better or worse, I figured it was time to have a dedicated thread for this great genre.

    What are your favorites? Do you prefer 2D or 3D? Competitive or casual games? What kind of play styles do you prefer? What was your first fighting game? And so on, you get the gist.

    My current state of health has forced me to give up boxing and Brazilian jiu-jitsu in real life, so I have to get my competitive kicks (no pun intended, honest!) somehow, and video games, fighting games in particular, fit the bill at least partly, so until I can get back to getting my ass kicked IRL at the gym, I have to make do with getting my ass kicked in the virtual realm.

    I still remember the first time I played the original Street Fighter II on the SNES as a 10yo kid, and I was floored by the action, graphics, and violence (hey, those were different times!). My dad suggested we buy it, and of course I nodded as quickly as I could. I've been a fan of fighting games ever since although for over a decade I didn't play any games. It wasn't until a few years ago that I rediscovered them, and fighting games along with them although outside of Smash Bros, I didn't buy any newer games until 2015 December when @KaTrian bought Ultra Street Fighter IV as a Christmas present for me, and I've been hooked ever since.

    Needless to say, USFIV is my current favorite. It has a massive roster of vastly different characters, great gameplay, an active competitive scene and community, tight controls, plenty of play modes, decent online connectivity, and even tons of alternative costumes for every character on the PC version thanks to a vast array of mods.

    I love practicing combos, spacing, footsies etc. I still suck, but even getting my ass kicked online is a ton of fun because whenever I make a mistake, I know it was my fault and not the game's because the controls are spot on: whenever I drop one of Sakura's lengthy combos, I can rest assured it was all me.
    I also love playing it with Kat even though she doesn't have nearly as much time to practice as I do, but there's just something to playing with someone sitting right next to you.

    I have a few other fighters too: Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus, Super Smash Bros Brawl (hope someone will finish the PAL version of Project M at some point), and Skullgirls.

    I haven't gotten all that into those games yet because especially Guilty Gear and Skullgirls, while amazing games, have really steep learning curves, at least if you want to have any chance in online play. Or maybe it's just because I'm such a scrub...
    I do already know my mains, though: Baiken in GG, Sheik in Smash (otherwise it'd be Samus, but let's be honest: she sucks in Brawl and Smash 4, sadly and oddly enough), and Ms. Fortune in SG (I love Painwheel's design and I think she's the coolest character in the game, bar none, but I haven't had enough time to learn her rather eccentric style, and while I'm pretty effective with Valentine, I haven't unlocked her yet, so I can't play as her in every play mode).

    In Street Fighter, I have mained Sakura ever since I first played one of the Alpha games on Game Boy Advance. I love her super-aggressive play style but also her versatility: while she's mostly a rush down character, she does have a projectile attack too, allowing you to do some zoning against the bigger/clumsier opponents, and her Shinku Tenguyo Hadoken is a great way to finish a combo ending in an EX Tatsu. Possibly my worst bad habit is overusing her Shouoken, especially without hit confirming it first which has led to more than my fair share of face palming. At least I'm slowly learning to make use of the crouching medium kick, possibly her best poke in addition to her extremely useful standing hard kick.
    I also love her as a character: her enthusiasm and dedication for improving as a fighter and fighting with no ill will towards her opponents is infectious, and I just feel bad for her when so many of the other characters are so mean to her when I lose. Come on, learning by watching isn't a bad thing, you asshats! :D

    In the near future I hope to also get some version of King of Fighters (I'm looking at '98 Ultimate Match or maybe one of the newer ones like XI) and Samurai Shodown (the fact that none of the SS titles are on Steam is one of the greatest injustices in gaming, but of course you could always use emulators... not that I'd ever do such a thing...), and maybe Mortal Kombat X or the next MK, but the fact that the game is no longer supported by the devs has kinda ruined my enthusiasm to get it.

    Anyway, any other fighting game enthusiasts or casuals here? Find any new gems lately?

    Ladies, gentlemen, the floor is yours. :cool:
     
  2. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    To put it briefly, Tekken 3 was my first fighting game and in many ways still my favorite. The simple feel and flow is important to me. I loved Tekken 4 also. After that I felt they were getting a bit gimmicky.
     
  3. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I have only played Tekken 1 a long time ago (but I played it quite a bit with my friends albeit never seriously).
    Why is 3 your favorite? Like are there other reasons except sentimental value?

    In what ways do you think the ones after 4 started getting gimmicky?

    Sorry, I just love to hear about other people's experiences with the genre. :D
     
  4. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sure, I would be glad to explain.

    I suppose it is fair to say that Tekken 3 does hold sentimental value to me, it was like one of the first fighting games I played as a child, but I don't really feel that is why I rating it the way I am. Let me expand on them. :) Because I had played them all and most of them in lengthy detail.

    Tekken 01. Meh, the biggest issue with this game was the lag. But it was the first game, nice for collecting value and probably not horrible for its time, but the lag kills the flow and the flow is the best part of Tekken to me.

    Tekken 02. Awesome! Technically lag is still an issue here, but a minor one. Characters were expanded and you even got unique characters like the devil! The last game was like ported from an arcade, this one was built for a console.

    Tekken 03. Last one for PS1. Lag is completely gone or no longer at an annoying level. More characters, more modes, more things to unlock, better graphics and as mentioned no lag. This is exactly what it should have been, better than the previous one in every way. Except maybe for the fact that before we got an angel and devil and this time we got a fire monster. Devil was cooler.

    Funny enough, you might think devil and fire monsters are the gimmicky part. But no. Actually gimmicky may not even be a fair way to phrase it.

    Tekken 4. First one on the PS2 and fuck yeah. For one, graphics were obviously amazing! And the story mode was 10x better than the previous. It had alternate versions of Tekken 03 extra modes. It felt smooth, the impact was satasifying, in this one you could be hit into walls which was awesome. Only one crappy thing. Less characters. It only had like 15 characters. The previous two games both had like 40. This part sucked but it had most of the characters we wanted to see. I original felt this okay, because every game had been better. I was eagerly awaiting the next one and felt this was a minor issue that would be corrected.

    Tekken Tag. Gimmicky! Well by definition. Because you can tag! (Spooky noise!) Eh, meh. I liked 4 better. If memory served, it felt more like Tekken 3 with Tekken fours graphics. Which isn't bad, but Tekken 4 had already pushed past that. So this felt like less of a new game and more of a retread that sounded different because you can tag. Also, if memory serves, you lose if either of your guys get KOed which prompts you to switch more. Which is lame!

    Tekken 5. This one, I don't even remember finishing. So, hard to speak towards it. But that is sort of the games own fault. Mainly because it was ridicuously hard. I played all the previous games. I know how to play! And I am not just saying that like some noob that only played on easy. I could crank it up to very hard and still win. And the characters mostly play the same. Given all of this. I still could barely beat the story mode with like 3 characters and it took like 30 minutes of continues. And this wasn't just super hard. I got to the end boss in like 3 minutes and then the end boss just kicked my ass. He had two unblockable long range attacks! It seriously felt like it was all luck. Would I just be lucky enough for him not to spam them? And this was on freaking EASY! Seriously? Screw Tekken 5.

    More than that though. The story again was back to Tekken 3 standards. Which I didn't understand. Tekken 4 was freaking amazing and it is really the only one that is amazing.

    Tekken 6. Actually, hadn't played this one.

    Tekken PS network. This is actually what got me back into Tekken. It isn't bad. It is a free to play, so has issues. 5 plays that recharge every 20 min. Only a like 6 characters until you unlock more. Unlocking characters being redicuously hard unless pay money. You know, free to play issues. But the game play was good. No story at all. They also added an invincible move I think to entice noobs with a move that they could just spam and almost win. Overall a nice experience. Funny as heck, as it was my first time playing people I couldn't see but were actual people. So seeing them like get nervous and back away was funny. Plus a ranking system meant you were never just creamed too easily.

    Tekken Tag 2. Sounds stupid right? Eh. I got this one because it was the most recent and the PS network got me into it again. Annoying as hell for a few reasons.
    1. Lose with one of your two is KOed which is still annoying and you can't turn the tag thing off.
    2. No story. You start with all the characters. I mean, I think you can unlock stuff like alternate costumes, but why even bother? It became the game I only pop in when I am playing a real life friend.
    This is the game that I think made me realize the issue I think has been here since Tekken 5 too. Being I went to online play and died. Okay. I am not some expert gamer. Just because I could play Tekken 4 on hard mode and kick the computers butt, I wasn't thinking I was like the king of combat. But, I seriously couldn't land a single hit on anyone in the network play. And the issue I have with this is that it wasn't my fault! They would juggle, and do all these long ass combos that you couldn't really stop mid way. They wouldn't complete the combos just so they could juggle longer. BULLSHIT!!! Sorry. lol.

    Here is the thing, my theory is that given the PS2/network play thing. Tekken took a swing in direction towards juggle/longer combos. Which is against the original appeal to me. The appeal of Tekken is simple. It is a simple game. A good example of this is Tekken 3. Which, even when I crank it to hard, the CPU rarely did the comboes. Obviously Tekken had combos before Tekken 5, but they weren't so effective that you could just own a person instantly by knowing them. (Except or maybe King, but that is one character with really hard combos and I think there was still a command built in that could break his combo if you were the other player just spazzing on the control you might break free.) This is my theory to Tekken 5 because I am wondering, is that why the boss is so hard? Was I supposed to just spam the shit out of juggling and comboes and not let him move? Well, no. I don't want to play the game in a style that makes it near impossible for my opponent to win. I didn't like being juggled. I don't want to juggle others.

    I think this was more of a problem in Tekken Tag 2 because with tag combos, it was even more extreme, but the problem existed in Tekken PS network too, but it was more rare because free to play, so a lot of noobs and all these guys were like near the top of the ranking so you never much saw them unless you were one. Obviously I can't speak to Tekken 6. lol. In a sense, it makes sense from a marking stand point. The games I think were successful money wise, and on the PS network a lot of people seemed to liike that if you knew the combos you could just own all noobs. Me? Eh. I liked the fact that in Tekken 3, my little sister could mash buttons and play the game that way and was a genuine threat. Because she might actually accidentally pull off a mini-like combo right when I wasn't expecting it. I liked the fact that I knew how to play and that helped me when, but didn't mean instantly that all people under my skill would lose without being able to hit me. I am weird. lol.

    Well, I don't think I could have went into more detail. lol. Does that answer your questions? :D
     
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  5. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Almost: you didn't mention who's your main and why? :D

    Also, are you planning to get other fighting games from other franchises? SF? MK? Dead or Alive? Something else?

    Anyway, I can't really comment on Tekken much as a series, but I think I get what you're saying.

    First, the difficulty level spiking very unevenly in Tekken 5 is something I have experienced as well if perhaps to a lesser extent. In USFIV, the final boss, Seth, is just such a disproportionate spike in difficulty. Seriously, unless I was cheating with Evil Ryu's somewhat broken focus attack, I couldn't beat Seth no matter how hard I tried. I just couldn't take him out even though I could beat every other character on the hardest difficulty level with my main, Sakura (you can't cheat with her FA because its reach isn't as great as Evil Ryu's).

    However, while I would definitely have appreciated a nightmare mode where all fighters were almost as tough as Seth so that the difficulty wouldn't spike like that, there's a positive side to the challenge:

    I was forced to "git gud." It were the countless defeats in Seth's hands that drove me to SF forums, YouTube video tutorials, and to watch videos of the world's best Sakura players with a pen and a notepad, frequently pausing and "rewinding" as I scribbled furiously, jotting down all the cool tactics and combos I didn't even know were possible.
    You should've seen my frustration when I tried to combo a jumping hard punch, standing medium punch, and a fireball. I just couldn't do it and even wondered if I was doing something wrong, like there was some trick to it that I didn't know.
    Luckily the SF community proved helpful, so a very experienced Sakura player gave me some advice, the most important piece being that I was doing everything right, that I just needed to learn to hit that sweet spot with my timing and spacing.

    Fast forward about a month and I had finally learned to pull off the combo (with moderate frequency) and a few others too. Most importantly, Seth could beat me only about 7 times out of 10. Meaning those 3 times out of 10 I whooped his ass! :cool:
    I swear, the first time I beat him on hardest was sooo satisfying, and I raised my fists in triumph along with Sakura. :D

    It was at that moment I realized that my journey was just beginning.
    Fast forward another few weeks, and I braved my very first online matches. I had a couple and got my ass handed to me, big surprise.

    That mildly humbling outcome just confirmed what I already suspected:
    I still needed a lot of practice, but I had become good enough to see my mistakes, meaning I knew exactly what to practice in the training mode.

    Nowadays I can usually beat Seth on my first attempt, maybe third if I'm having a bad day, and I can perform, with a fair modicum of success, a combo that drains almost half of my opponent's life bar, among others.
    The way I look at it, while I thoroughly enjoy drilling in the training mode, the real fun will start in about a month or two when I'll hopefully be good enough to offer at least some challenge to other players online. All the work I've put in up until now has been just for preparation for where the meat of the game is: online play with other human players. I can't wait for that day, but, then again, I also love practicing, so the journey is thoroughly enjoyable.

    I do get that not everyone enjoys or has the opportunity to woodshed their main a few hours almost every day (I wouldn't either if I wasn't on extended sick leave), and I think that's exactly why e.g. Smash was created, and Capcom made performing combos significantly easier in SFV.
    Personally, I love both types of games. I may have a slight preference for games that require me to practice a lot since I like practicing, but I'm glad Sakurai and others even before him have brought us a different types of fighting games that place different kinds of requirements on the players because we all have different likes and dislikes.
    And now I lost my train of thought...
     
  6. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    :D I love all fighting games, but I am sort of blanking on the names right now. Soul Calibur was one I remember liking. I never actually got the chance to play Street Fighter. MK is the fighting game I sort of reference as the one I like the least. To me, MK is just clunky as heck. I never can feel the same flow as Tekken. The controls just feel stiff to me and most people I know just try and spam the special moves.

    As if wasn't already highly implied. I recommend Tekken. :D If you don't know the basic idea, as I forgot to mention it. The basic four buttons all control 1 limb. Which was the simplistic core idea. Which makes concepts like Right Jab left Jab, something that is just square, triangle(on the PS) very natural and what gives it the unique flow I keep talking about.

    Favorite characters. Tough. See, in the new games, I barely pick character except for the ones I remember from previous games.

    And in the old games, the story mode prompted me to pick all the characters just to see their story. But, my top three would be. Hworang, Ling Xiolyuo and Lili. And I am pretty sure I spelled all of there names wrong! Hworang is a Korean kicker(seriously, his punching is worthless) the middle one is a Chinese girl that flips around. And Lili is like splitting the difference. Lili was one of the opening characters on the PS Network version because my favorites weren't instantly open. But the list of characters I love from the games is much longer.

    And about the whole bumping it up to the next level thing. Yeah, I am not saying that is bad. Just, not my goal. I realized the same thing in a game called Yu-Gi-Oh. A card game that I sucked at, got involved in online play and became awesome! Except I eventually hit a wall. Because to pass that wall, I was going to have to embrace what works. And I just... won't do that in games. In Tekken, and in Yu-gi-oh, it is a game and to me part of the fun is raising my technique to a dangerous level. Not simple copying other technique. Plus there is a certain drawback to becoming awesome.

    Which is well, others are no longer in your league. I will take, my twelve year old niece button mashing and possible accidently kickiing my butt over online play strategy any day of the week. Thing is, if I become super awesome, my niece only wins because I let her and that drains all of the fun out of it for her. And learning to play at my level isn't fun for her either. I expirenced the same thing with Yugioh. I became awesome, so none of my real life friends want to play anymore.

    Does that make sense?

    Oh, I always wanted to try king of fighters. Recently I bought the old version that came out in 99. It was 5 bucks on PS network. Not as good as I was expecting. I mean, I think I was playing Tekken before 99. So I was expectint equal graphics, but it was really crappy in that department. So it made me pause about getting a more recent version. Do you like King of Fighters?
     
  7. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, you do make perfect sense, and I do kinda lament not having any friends I could play IRL who could pose any kind of challenge, but none of them are competitive players, so I pretty much have to place artificial limitations on myself. Usually I use the handicap tool to give myself only 25% of the life meter and e.g. don't use any special moves or hard punches and hard kicks etc. It's actually not a bad way to go about it because it forces me to play very carefully and focus on stuff I don't use much normally and to pay closer attention to the basics like footsies.

    For a challenge, I play online where nowadays I'm barely able to squeeze out a win here and there. I'm still more likely to get my ass handed to me, though. That's why I try to be systematic about my practice and e.g. play online only once a week and in between the online dates, I spend most of my gaming time woodshedding whatever weaknesses I spotted in my game in the online bouts, and hope that I'll do better the next week.

    I'm familiar with KoF, but I haven't played any except KoF EX2: the Howling Blood on GBA, but not much of that either.

    However, my next Steam purchase will be one of the KoF games. I'm just not sure which one to get. Some insist '98 is the definitive game, some favor the newer games etc. Any recommendations? :cool:
     
  8. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    The only Kof I played was 99. I wasn't impressed. I mean, it wasn't bad. I am no expert, it may have been fine by the standards of 99 and the newer games may fine or great. But playing 99 didn't make me want to play another one from the series.

    Recomendations, thinking. Not sure what system you play, but if PS, I think that free to play Tekken is still on there. Obviously I support Tekken! I liked soul calibur, and oh. I remember anothe obscure one. Bloody Roar! I played I think 2 for the original PS. So, not sure how many there are. I am sure a few more. It has been too long for me to remember the fight scheme or if it was good, but from memory, I remember that it was good.

    To showcase my memory, I remember playing the old mortal kombats and thinking. "This sucks, the flow is horrible." And sure enough, toss in Mortal Kombat today, new or old and I think the exact same thing. I find it funny, because when I hear people who like Mortal Kombat. You never hear. "Tight comtrol man!" no you hear. "Oh my god, did you see Raiden's new Fatality! Fucking awesome!" Which... yeah granted that is neat, but hell. It is 2016. I can youtube Raiden's new fatality. lol.

    The basic to Bloody Roar I do remember. Which is that you have like an instinct meter and when it is full you can go animal mode! In which you become stronger and become half person/half animal. I don't remember if the mode is temporary. I do remember you have an ultimate attack that ends the mode. Which, all this sounds perfect for you. An easy handicap is just not using the mode. lol. The ultimate attacks were pretty brutal too. Like the rabbit would stuff you into a ball and start juggling you with her feet. The bat would fly you into the air and stump on you. My friends as a kid loved her because her ultimate had a nut shot. (We were kids?) Because after tossing you to the ground she would de-transform and land on your nuts with her high heels and rotate her body twisting the heels in. Eek that sounds horrible! lol.

    If I think about it. There are some more obscure titles that come to mind. Dragonball Z has some neat fighting games. The original Budokai 3 was pretty awesome as a traditional fighting game. The Tenk.... something. Basically DBZ T. Budokai series focused on free range of motion almost first person view fighting game. I mean, fucking hell yeah! It is neat for that alone. The first has issues, but number 3 is pretty bad ass. Lie 100 selectable characters, the ability to fly, projectile attacks as well as up close pounding. Tight controls. It is amazing.

    Last one I can think of now, is Digimon Rumble Area 2 for the PS2. It has an interesting balance to it. Really good controls. I love digimon but let me tell the story here of the 3 games.

    Digimon Rumble Area 1.
    I actually love this game. That might be because I am a digimon fanboy. I Don't recommend it because I am not sure if you would enjoy. It is pretty simple. 2 specials, jump, 1 normal attack and one ultimate attack. That is it. Not much to learn or master. But boy are some of the ultimate attacks fucking awesome! One in particular is a fireball the size of half the screen. And you can use it while jumping. And it is free time, no hit you, go to ultimate fireball cut screen. So you can dodge it! And still today, it is incredible satifying to be like. "DODGE THIS!" or to be like. "HA! DODGED IT!" lol. Its faults are only that it was PS1 and just didn't have enough data space to push it to new heights. It was very nice to the digimon fan, giving them exactly what they wanted.

    Digimon Rumble Area 2.
    This came out YEARS later. Which is important to mention because it is not a true sequal. It is not in any way like the original game which was a tradtional 2D tournment fighter. This was made to capitlaze on a new season of Digimon that came out. And it was modeled after super smash bros. So digimon meets smash. It works, mainly because the controls are amazing. I know I keep pitching that but it is important to me. To the point I could literally just troll some friends by only avoiding there attacks. So that smooth a feel is amazing and as we know. Smash is a nice game. So passable. The one part I don't like is that in many ways it shits on digimon. The once half the screen fireball is now a peashooter. So it lost the feel that I was this amazingly strong character. But as a kids game. It is nice. It makes up for it by having triple the characters.

    Digimon Rumble Area 3 or All Stars for the PS3.
    Yikes! A purchase I almost regret. I love digimon. I want them to do good, but while the other one was a kids game an adult could have fun with. This is like purely a kids game. Again, taking the Smash formula an trying to make it bigger! They added a 3D world model. Which was something and the core of the game isn't bad. But this game needed a few more hours of beta testing. From thee controls not being as good, to the lock on system causing you to miss, to the overall clumsy handling of the 3D map. There is so much at fault with the game, I didn't even care to unlock all the characters before I got bored. Which is sad. First Ps3 Digimon game! Gah! They look so amazing! And the models and attacks felt larger again. But sadly, control is the one nail that can seal a coffin all by itself.

    Does that help at all?
     
  9. David Tice
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    Street Fighter is a classic of course along with Killer Instinct but my personally favorite is the arcade classic Marvel vs. Capcom. Fun memories with that one...
     
  10. croak3r
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    I bought Mortal Kombat X for PC on release and never played it. I had a go on my brothers PC and the framerate was all over the place and multiplayer netcode made it unplayable, so i didnt bother with it. I thought it may have been better after a few months, but playing it again last week i saw they still havnt fixed the frame rate issues. I hear it's a common problem with fighting games on PC, since the developers only really care about it's console player base and only spend a small ammount of time porting it to PC.
     
  11. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Thanks for the recommendations! I'll check 'em out.

    I'm on PC, but of course there's that dreaded e-word, "emulation," so at least the PS1 isn't off the table. ;) There are actually several 2D fighters on that console that I'd love to try like the Street Fighter Alpha series, the Darkstalker series etc.


    The devs of the MKX PC port have dropped it, i.e. no new patches or anything. From what I've heard, it wasn't a bad port, but the tons of downvotes on Steam are in protest to the lack of support from the devs. Too bad.

    I recently had a bit of a "growth spurt" in USFIV. It's amazing that the more I play, the more I learn, the more fun the game gets, especially online play. It's just so satisfying to score a W after hours upon hours of practice, especially considering that most of the people who haven't migrated yet to the infamous SFV tend to be really good. Honestly speaking, I haven't encountered any bad players/beginners.

    Unfortunately for a scrub like me that means my win rate is only something like 25-30%, but even that's something I'm happy about: the better the other players, the more I can learn from them. The last one I won, but I noticed I dropped more combos than is acceptable, so I need to work on my 1-2 frame links in particular.
    On a positive note, my footsies have improved quite a bit from when I first picked up the game a couple of months ago. I can't wait to find out where my skill level will be in the next couple of months. Hopefully I'll have gotten better at hit confirming as that's probably my weakest link at the moment.

    At any rate, I'm going to stick with USFIV (especially since it seems Sakura won't be in SFV even as DLC) until the time I finally grow sick of it, but in the meantime, I can't wait to get to play again. :cool:
     
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