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  1. d.b.potts
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    d.b.potts Member

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    For the People?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by d.b.potts, Feb 3, 2008.

    For the People?

    I don't know if anybody's heard, though I haven't seen any recent signs of a mass uproar in the media recently:
    nobody is legally obligated to fill out a 1040 tax return in the United States, as it has been declared unconstitutional
    on a few occasions by the Federal Supreme Court. Nobody can be taxed on their wages. And furthermore, the Federal
    Reserve itself is a private bank owned by a handful of families, and it has been controlling the American economy, ever
    since they redesigned it to fit their own needs (ie. trashing the gold standard and replacing it with a credit-based economy,
    a paper-based economy) in 1913. The Federal Reserve Act was written secretly and passed through the legislative machine
    on Christmas Day, while the whole country was in its living room opening presents.

    These facts, that I have learned from various online sources and from films and interviews with the late Aaron Russo (to name
    a few), have opened my eyes to the reality of our North American politics. I always disliked politics, thinking it was dry and
    kind of redundant. But this view is utopian. If you assume that all things are good, then the administration of policies and the
    debates revolving around them would seem useless. All things, though, are not good. All things are actually, I believe, much
    worse than they've ever been. Has anybody heard of the Verichip? I will not go into detail about the possibilities of this device,
    but I will ask everyone who reads this to independently research the technology, its current uses, and the history of the IBM
    corporation back to the second World War. There are some strange correlations between unlikely characters and interests, to
    say the least.

    Dig further if you wish. It's just the tip of the iceberg.

    After all is said: I must say that there is one possible "step for man" at this very moment, and that is to stop paying
    taxes on your wages. There is no law that requires you to do it, there are only Supreme Court rulings confirming your right
    not to. If there is enough support here in North America, we can take a much more monumental "step for mankind" if we
    completely abolish all private banks and illegal legislation like the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

    Is this guy crazy? What will we do then, have no money?

    No. We'll have a much better money, interest free and accountable, just like the United States between the time of Independence
    and Christmas of 1913.

    Think about it. Talk to people. Ask the right questions, and get the right answers.


    d.b.
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    There are some pretty wild claims here, starting with:
    I think the Department of the Treasury and the Department of Justice would dispute these assertions, and there have been plenty of high-profile prosecutions in the news to make these claims extremely questionable. Do you have any authoritative references to support these claims?
     
  3. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Ah poltics. Its an apple. When it first gets started its sweet and delicious. Give it two hundred years and its rotten nasty and gives you diharea.
     
  4. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    I agree with you there lordofhats and that is why I completely avoid every thing to do with politics.

    I've enough to worry about without worrying about their garbage and how much they are trying to screw the planet over this time. It's all they do! Screw theplanet and line their own pockets.
     
  5. d.b.potts
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    Yes... the proof is in the Supreme Court decisions. It is only legal to be taxed on income collected beyond one's wages (like the stock market, or untaxed cash income). Even in the IRS manual, it states that wage tax is voluntary. Many IRS agents have quit and refused to file their taxes since they have found out. All of this tax goes towards paying off the national debt, which goes straight into the pockets of the private Federal Reserve bankers.

    Research it for yourself.
     
  6. d.b.potts
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    d.b.potts Member

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    And for lordofhats and Torana: I pointed out in my initial post that I used to shy away from politics for the same reasons. But if we can realize that things are not ideal or truly democratic, then we must also realize that our lack of participation in the political arena is counter-productive.
    The corporate leadership depends on us being complacent, so that their interests can take the foreground. Democracies can't be democratic until the people stand up for their rights. Just like those candidates who will never become President, like Kucinich and Gravel, until the people admit the possibility.

    Has anybody researched the Verichip yet?
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    You're making the case, so you should provide the references. Otherwise your argument is no better than, "My neighbor's cousin's wife works for a law office, and she said..."

    Try not paying tax on your wages, and see how far you get with the IRS with that argument.
     
  8. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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  9. d.b.potts
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    Here's just a few sources. There are more, if you (or I) have the time to search. But watch the whole movie, "America: Freedom to Fascism". It's packed full of info.

    http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp
    America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

    Who knows, maybe you'll wander into other topics while you're on the prowl. Never discount things thought to be "conspiracies". I believe secrets are suspicious, and kept secret for a reason. Other points of interest that you could look up are: the Bilderberg Group, Skull and Bones, DUMBs (deep underground military bases), Leo Zagami.

    I make no suggestions. These are merely things that are too interesting to avoid completely.
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I personally find the link mammamaia posted to be far more credible. The page pointed to by your first link even acknowledges that the courts issued an injunction against the author over disseminating this "information."

    Let me ask this. If the United States Supreme Court ruled that collecting taxes on wage income is unconstitutional, then don't you think the tax forms would have been revised to no longer tax Wages, Salaries, and Tips? Even if you don't believe the court wouldn't require the forms to be amended after that decision, wouldn't the American Civil Liberties Union have pursued a class action suitto force such a revision?

    These assertions make no sense whatsoever. Every indication is that this is nothing more than wishful thinking being pushed by fringe malcontents.

    It just does not stand up to any kind of critical analysis.
     
  11. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't care if me not participating is counter-productive to be honest. Not like what I say or think is going to make a difference anyways. The government is going to screw the country over enough without me aiding in that. It's all they do. Screw the country over nd make the poor man suffer throughout life and make sure he can't get anywhere whilst making the rich man even damn well richer and live the most comfortable of lives.

    I don't care for politics. It's all garbage. They care about one thing and one thing alone. MONEY! Nothing else.

    Heck if our voices were ever heard for a change then maybe I'd give a rats ass, but our voices aren't heard and they don't give a damn what we have to say. SO why should I give a rats ass what they have to say?
     
  12. lordofhats
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    the US Government without income tax probably can run itself either.
     
  13. d.b.potts
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    Everybody here is CRAZY! Nobody watched my sources, did they?

    The man who wrote the IRS handbook admits that it is a voluntary tax!
    IRS agents are quitting and refusing to pay tax on their wages!
    The Federal Government borrows money at interest from private bankers, instead of just circulating their own, interest free, which is their right... and which is exactly what they did for years!
    Federal Income tax does not pay for anything, except the national debt (ie. the bankers pockets). All taxes are allotted to specific branches of the economy, like taxes for sales, tobacco, land, alcohol, etc!

    I'm telling you, it's legitimate. CHECK IT OUT, instead of just saying it can't be true.
     
  14. d.b.potts
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    There are too many credible sources to say that this is not true. It is true, but there seems to be little people can do about it. If you're resourceful and ready, you can successfully defend yourself in court after not paying your wage levies. Some of these people are saying that you should pay the taxes anyway, at least until the problem is solved, because they know what people can go through with the IRS. Here are some more sources.... but everyone should definitely watch "America: Freedom to Fascism". It's packed full of information.

    WorldNetDaily: Exposing the IRS fraud
    YouTube - Former IRS Agent Joe Banister and Ron Paul On CNBC
    YouTube - Ex IRS agent tells it like it is
    YouTube - IRS Commissioner Evades THE Question
    Anti IRS
    IRS Fraud?
     
  15. d.b.potts
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  16. mammamaia
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    dbp... so, how come you're ignoring the link i provided to the findings of the supreme court?

    torana... re this:
    how can your voice be heard, if you never raise it in the way it's best heard--with a vote?... and with letters to the editor and by working for candidates who are not motivated by 'MONEY'?... it's naive to say all are just out for money, since elected positions pay very little, compared to 'real jobs' and it's lust for 'power' that motivates the worst of politicos...
     
  17. PrincessGarnet
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    I think a problem I find in the UK, is that it doesn't really matter who wins, labour and conservatives are hard to distinguish in many areas, thus making voting useless in the eyes of many. Also, so many factors outside the UK, influence the way decisions have to be made by politicians in the UK, which in a way makes it less democratic.

    Politics is very frustrating but it does equally annoy me people who write off all politicians as all the same. People can make changes happen. My parents have never visited their MP or wrote a letter to him, yet complain about the uselessness of politics, which just seems illogical to me.

    Also back on topic, i was a bit confused by the original post. Although in general on taxes, the countries which pay the highest, usually have the best public services, so not necessarily a bad thing.
     
  18. d.b.potts
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    Mamm: You didn't provide me with Supreme Court findings... you provided me with Internal Revenue propoganda. They are saying not to try the "constitutional" card in not paying your taxes. In othee words, don't pay attention to that worthless piece of paper because this is the way it is. It's the same stuff they're always saying.

    Nevertheless, I agree with your comment about raising voices.

    d.b.
     
  19. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I read/watched the sources you linked to, as well as the one mammamaia pointed to. I did not find your sources particularly credible. You keep on making truly incrediuble claims, not backed by any kind of solid documentation - only other people also making outrageous claims without any verifiable supporting evidence.

    As for the document mammamaia linked to, that is an official policy document issued by the United States Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service. Compared with any of all of the sources you have provided, it's rock solid; to call it propaganda is extraordinarily ironic.
     
  20. d.b.potts
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    THE IRS IS NOT ROCK SOLID!!!!!

    They are the very organization that is under scrutiny here, and an article written by them is seen as a source for opposition? They are the ones breaking the law, so forgive me if I dn't give a **** what they have to say!
     
  21. d.b.potts
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    d.b.potts Member

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    And you obviously didn't watch my sources close enough....

    IRS agents, lawyers, jury members, Supreme Court rulings.... these are not good enough sources?!

    You should re-watch "America: Freedom to Fascism.
     
  22. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    sigh. Never mind.
     
  23. d.b.potts
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    Note: the censoring on my previous message surprisingly made it seem much harsher than it was originally intended. Hmm... go figure.
     
  24. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    No one censored you.
     
  25. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    This has gone on long enough. I removed your "clarification". It doesn't matter what the actual word was, the post was over the top., and your responses have been increasingly insulting.

    Thread closed.
     
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