1. Teen
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    Teen New Member

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    Frustrated

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Teen, Jul 24, 2010.

    I don't get it. I signed on here to have fun and meet other writers. And, I have been on here for a total of maybe 3 hours and already I feel like I am being badgered by some "know it all." I have to add that I followed the rules and wrote 2 critiques. And then put one of my poems up for critiqueing, yet it was locked. And he will not specify what I did that was wrong. My reviews were done whole-heartedly. It seems to me that people with authority take their "higher status" too far sometimes.
     
  2. Unit7
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    Unit7 Contributing Member Contributor

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    It wouldn't hurt to look over some other peoples critiques and reviews and see how other people do theirs.

    One of them didn't feel much like a critique to me. No offense. It just seemed like simply praise towards the author. Now maybe if you went into more detail as to why you enjoyed certain parts and stuff it might be better.

    There is also just the chance that Cogito may have over looked them.

    At the very least you should ask him personally and try and explain why your critiques were not up to standard. It might also help to review the rules of what makes up a good critique and ask yourself if your own critiques had any of that.

    If they don't then you might want to revise your critiques to include what is expected.
     
  3. Fantasy of You
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    Fantasy of You Banned

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    The way in which the rules are enforced often push people away, rather than the rules themselves. Take it with a pinch of salt, because the staff here have to deal with a lot & sometimes are blunt without meaning to be (or perhaps on purpose, who knows).

    I think they forget how hard it is, when you first come to a forum and try to critique. I just looked over your critiques and I thought they were fine. The second, being just praise and no criticism, may be the reason why. Which is a shame, because you clearly took the time to think & write your responses well. It's not your fault if genuinely believe a piece is perfect as it is.

    I hope you stick at this site, despite the rudeness you've been showed. And I hope this thread may serve as an opportunity to show certain members of staff they need to be more sensitive with regards to new members...

    - Andy
     
  4. Donal
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    Donal Contributing Member

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    Stick with it. I read the reviews you did and although one was a bit vague (they look for specific reviews), the other was certainly a helpful and specific post. I really hope you stick with it. They can be needlessly blunt at times. I thought the 2 reviews you wrote were sufficient so I critiqued your poem. I think do another critique of something. Make it specific, private message Cognito and tell him that you've done critiques. Keep your head up, I really hope you stick to the site.

    I agree with Andy that the members of staff need to show more understanding to newer members.
     
  5. Lydia
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    Lydia Contributing Member Contributor

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    Hmm, who is this Cognito you speak of? :confused:
     
  6. Elgaisma
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    Elgaisma Contributing Member Contributor

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    i'm new too, when you get your poem back up I'd love too read it.

    It can be difficult but learn to take it, if you want to be a writer people will critique and seem unpleasant a lot its learning to take it with a smile, that makes criticism easier to take.

    Even if the standard replies and some of the things in them bug me, I am also very greatful for the people who have created a site thats allowing me to learn such a lot and grow.
     
  7. Xeno
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    Xeno Mad and Bitey Contributor

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    It's Cogito's Evil Twin.

    He's very good at hiding.
     
  8. Ashleigh
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    Ashleigh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Oh quit crying about it, newbies. We all had to go through this. If you want decent reviews and critiques of your work, then it's only fair that you provide the same in exchange. Subsequently, just because you deem your critique worthy doesn't mean it actually is; there's a learning process available to you here, so embrace the opportunity and work at it. Part of being a writer, or atleast the process to becoming a good one, is that you can critique as well as produce.

    People are willing to help you understand what makes a good critique, and if you looked around the Review Room instead of immediately posting your own stuff, (or dare I say it - complaining in the lounge!) then you might just learn a thing or two. After all, if mastering a critique was so easy, then it wouldn't be worth having. Is it really so difficult? ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Lavarian
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    Lavarian Contributing Member Contributor

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    If you only post two reviews before posting your own work and one of them is purely praise, it makes it look as if you only reviewed just so you could post your own work.

    Since many, many "two-post Joes" show up to this site, post two reviews, then post their own work (never to bee seen again), I'd imagine that it can be easy to grow impatient and assume others do the same.
    Best thing you can do is review more.
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It really doesn't matter how I explain the closing of a Review Room thread. I could cover it with pink icing and multicolored sprinkles, but the only thing many members will perceive is, "He closed my thread!"

    We do all we can to discourage new members from rushing to the Review Room. I try to warn new members in the very first paragraph of my welcome post to hold off on posting their writing. But if they don't start by posting to New Member Introductions, or don't see or read my post before they hurry to post, I can't get the message to them any faster.

    The requirement exists to make the Review Room an effective learning workshop, and it does work.
     
  11. Sabreur
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    Sabreur Contributing Member Contributor

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    What Cogito said. The staff here is not "needlessly blunt" or "rude." They just don't coddle you. Writing is hard. Coddling writers creates bad literature.

    If you don't like the rules, leave.
     
  12. natsuki
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    natsuki Active Member

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    I had a thread locked in the first time I posted on the review room. My reviews were not helpful, but then I tried hard to improve them and was able to reopen the thread. It is not difficult, and I even felt it helped me.

    There are pieces in the review room that you don't have nothing to add, so it is better if you don't post on these threads. Try to review when you see something wrong, when you feel your post might help the writer, otherwise there is no reason for posting in the first place.
     
  13. FoxyMomma
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    FoxyMomma Contributing Member

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    Bad crit:

    I liked it, it was good.
    I didn't like it, it was bad.
    I loved it and wouldn't change anything. (COP OUT! There is almost always a way to improve ANYTHING!)

    Actually use your little pea-brain and try to give suggestions on how to improve the line, word, whole damn thing.
    Instead of saying, I would change this line and stopping there, give examples on how to change it.
    Change "The dog was brown" to "The dog looked as though he'd fallen into a mud puddle." SHOW DON'T TELL!

    Mods on this site aren't rude or hasty to close threads. THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOBS. Quit bitching about it and actually put some effort into your reviews and maybe you'll get the critique you are looking for.
     
  14. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Gently, Foxy, Gently. :)

    It may seem like second nature after you get over the initial hurdle, but newcomers are understandably a bit confused and at a loss over it.
     
  15. FoxyMomma
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    FoxyMomma Contributing Member

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    Foxy doesn't know how to do gently......

    Sorry!

    But not really.
     
  16. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    As another member of "the staff," here are my two cents.

    First, posting your own magnum opus is not the end goal we have in this forum. The goal is to improve oneself through the act of reviewing.

    Have other "refrigerator door" forums made it difficult for us to uphold this idea here at our forum. Yes, yes it has. But, the truth is that it is of little import what other forums do. The fact remains that sticking to our guns and staying on track is what has made wf.org one of the very largest, most frequented, and singularly active writing forums on the net.

    Members who understand that giving comes before getting soon learn that there is a very real gain to be had.
     
  17. Halcyon
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    Halcyon Contributing Member Contributor

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    I completely agree with the philosophy of this forum, and its methodology. It does weed out those who are serious and can make a meaningful contribution. Having said that, however, it can be confusing for a newcomer to properly appreciate the requirements, and it would be sensible to show a little understanding.

    Who knows how valuable a contributor to this forum that Justeen might become given time and encouragement?

    Personal insults can never be the best response, in my humble opinion. :)
     
  18. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Well the "give before you get" is only part of it. Many well-intentioned new members give considered opinions, but not with the specific focus on detail we require.

    Teen was one of those. If you arrive and don't realize that it is a workshop with specific objectives, it may seem like we shut down the thread without looking at their reviews.

    But there is a specific mindset we are trying to create, one which is sufficiently analytical to move from "I don't like this part much" to "Someting is wrong here, I think it is this because xxx, and so I think this change will improve it." It's a thought priocess that enables the writer to analyze a problem in his or her own writing and develop and execute a plan to fix it. A vague idea of the problem or something as general as "add more description" won't translate into a plan of action.

    Other critiquers will be taking this same approach, so if you understand the mindset, you can follow their logic and intelligently evaluate whether it works for your writing, so you need to understand that mindset before you can make the best use of the critiques.
     
  19. hiddennovelist
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    hiddennovelist Contributing Member Contributor

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    I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I just wanted to add my two cents into this.

    Can joining a new forum be confusing? Yes. There are older members who know each other, there's a whole dynamic to figure out, and then there are all the rules...but I don't think it's the mods' faults, or anyone else's, that a new member struggles with obeying the rules. Personally, when I'm new to a forum, I spend at least my first few days just lurking, reading other people's posts, and figuring out the lay of the land. That way, it's easy to figure out what flies and what doesn't, what is expected of you in a critique, etc. It's not confusing if you aren't overly hasty to run in and post your work.
     
  20. Mercurial
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    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

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    This forum is neither a refridgerator for your gold star work nor a giant bulletin board for advertising. Every forum is different, and despite the mod team's valient efforts to orient each member to this one, misunderstandings are inevitable. I hope that you move past your frustration, Teen (cute nickname, by the way), because this forum is full of interesting and intelligent people, and I'm sure you'd enjoy your time here. However, bitching about people and rules that the community is accustomed to and happy with is not a very good way to start off. Sorry, but, believe it or not, people still expect the same courtesy online as they expect offline --especially on a writing forum.

    Cogito always greets new members with very informative first post, containing helpful links about how the Review Room works as well as links that explain how critiquing works here. Being aware of the standards, especially in the writing-geared areas of the forum (as opposed to the lounge), is pretty important here. I would suggest you go back and investigate the links Cogito provided you with a bit more thoroughly.
     
  21. JTheGreat
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    JTheGreat Contributing Member

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    The two-review rule is here for a reason. First, it ensures members will post legit feedback to everyone's stories. Second, you learn from reviewing other people, surprisingly. If someone tells but doesn't show, then you'll think, "Hey, I won't do that to my story next time." Or if someone writes something that particularly catches your eye, like an original metaphor, you'd think, "I want one of those in my story." It's like how reading helps your writing, except you have he opportunity to communicate with the author through your review.

    If I were you, post more than one review! That rhymes. Anyway, it won't do you any harm to do so, and it will help the writing of both you and the OP.
     
  22. SonnehLee
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    SonnehLee Contributing Member Contributor

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    Please, please, please try that.

    and Merc's right. There are some ridiculously cool/smart/AWESOME people here. Don't give up on us yet. Keep on truckin'.
     
  23. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Well, sugar-coated or not, a mod has to get his/her point across. Cogito probably doesn't mean to tell the new person to get lost with how he does it. In fact, I respect him because he doesn't do it. He doesn't go: "Okay, now, you're story was okay, and I like the concept buuuuuuttt....you gotta read the rules first. *le' locks*"

    Cogito and the other mods do this because they actually care about you. They want you to post two good reviews of your own so that in turn, they can do it to you.

    And we make mistakes. I made a number of really boneheaded moves at times. Just pick yourself up, learn from it and move on. :)

    Well, I'll stop preaching for now. :D Don't give up on us yet, m'kay? Just keep on going.

    EDIT: Re-reading the OP, Teen, I wondered, did you do the two reviews AND post your own at the same time? That could've been what happened. Cogito thought you were just hurrying it up. Try waiting a day or so between reviews, then an extra day after the second one and then post your work up.
     
  24. untalented311
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    untalented311 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say that their asking for a lot in the reviews, except that you actually try. I do not know near enough about english to ever help somene in the grammer and punctuation area, so I try to think of any other way that I can help. I wouldn't say they're looking for you to be world class editors, I think that they're looking for you not to make a half hearted effort so that you can quickly get your stuff reviewed.
     
  25. Videodrome
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    Videodrome Member

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    Well I'm new here to but have not tried to post any story. I have offered comments but I think only one barely qualifies as a constructive critique or review.
     

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