Gender Neutral

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by pennib, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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  2. Clumsywordsmith

    Clumsywordsmith Active Member

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    Hmm... Not quite. At least not in Spanish, which is the only other language I have anything close to a working knowledge of. (Unless one were to count Sindarin, which would just be silly!) In Spanish, practically every noun is either feminine or masculine, and a great number of nouns can be switched from one to the other. There is virtually no difference between grammatical gender and biological gender, and as a rule of thumb most nouns that end in "a" are feminine, and most that end in "o" are masculine. Furthermore, when gender is in doubt or unnecessary the masculine form is generally used -- thus why a cat is usually just "Gato" and rarely "Gata". Though there are a great many exception and irregularities, but that's beside the point. For example, listed in masculine/feminine format:

    Doctor = Doctor/Doctora
    Nurse = Enfermero/Enfermera
    Plumber = Fontanero/Fontanera
    Actor = Actor/Actriz
    Cat = Gato/Gata
    Grandparent = Abuelo/Abuela
    Boy/Girl = Chico/Chica

    It's really quite an elegant way of doing things, and works far, far better than the ridiculous idea of complete gender neutrality that some posters here seem to be espousing. Of course, it's not as if the English language could suddenly be changed on a whim, but at the very least we can keep making the distinction between an "actor" and an "actress". Because let's face it -- there is a difference. I mean, I really hate to break it to people, but our species does consist of two different genders. There's nothing wrong with admitting this. There is, however, something that seems counterproductive in trying to create this pointless "lie of neutrality". Difference in this regard does not equate inequality, and if anyone still happens to think so, then it means that they, and not I, are still stuck in the old sexist way of thought.
     
  3. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    In most cases, though, the difference is irrelevant, and making a distinction in the language is therefore not making a relevant distinction. I have to say, though, that actor/actress is one of the few cases where the distinction can be significant -- not if one is "person in crowd", true, but I don't think Colin Firth would make a good Juno MacGuff in Juno, and Ellen Page wouldn't really have worked as Mr Darcy in Pride and prejudice. But if we treat all bricklayer's as "he" we are reinforcing stereotypes. Ok, on average (western) women might not have the strength or stamina for that job, but I'm not interested in the average, I'm interested in how well that particular person can do it.
     
  4. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    To take it a step further...

    Understand that gender, in its original sense simply means kind. Only in modern times has the word come to mean the kind of tackle one has in ones nethers.

    In fact, the word root for gender and kind is the same.

    gend-er

    kind

    Easy enough to follow when you know that G and K are the same phoneme in the voiced and unvoiced version respectively. The same way that B and P, D and T, F and V, Z and S, the TH of the and TH of think, the G of giant and CH of chair, are all pairs. Partners that happily trade places over time and space.

    It just happens to be that in most Indo-European languages that have gender, that gender parallels biological gender in use. As Clumsywordsmith has pointed out, what makes a refrigerator (la nevera) feminine and a car (el coche) masculine in Spanish? They have no tackle dangling in their nethers.

    There are many languages that divide grammatical gender along very different trains of logic and have many different grammatical genders all in the same language, masculine and feminine being just two choices of many. There are languages that ascribe a gender to things used by humans and another gender for those things belonging to animals. There are languages that have a gender for things that are long, colorful, plain, can be held in the hand, intangible, tangible, brown, etc.

    We think of gender as "male" and "female" because that is the dynamic of the languages with which we are familiar; thus, this shapes ways of thinking about things.

    There are other ways.
     
  5. zaffy

    zaffy Active Member

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    How far can we take this?
    How about all Mums should be called Dad, for fear of inferiority.
    Or, all Mums and all Dads should be called Parent for the sake of equality.
     
  6. Trilby

    Trilby Contributor Contributor

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    When you make an appointment ask for to see a female doctor. It's as simple as that.

    Remember less than a century ago our ancestors had no choice, all doctors were male.
    Today we have both male and female gynecologists and both female and male midwives.

    Doctors, nurses, plumbers, electricians, drivers etc need to gain a degree, pass an exam or serve an apprenticeship to qualify for their chosen profession, they all have one thing in common a piece of paper that states that they are qualified to do their job - gender has nothing to do with it.
    As to mum and dad they are different - a father can't give birth and a mother can't father a child. Parents they maybe but have different roles. Were as the doctor, driver, or whatever whether male or female perform the same role, do the same job. So why distinguish between them? It's not necessary.
     
  7. zaffy

    zaffy Active Member

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    Trilby, okay you win, but I wonder what Prince Anne will say about the matter.
     
  8. Trilby

    Trilby Contributor Contributor

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    I'll sign the truce.
     

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