1. MeadhbhMoryx
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    MeadhbhMoryx Member

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    Get Ottoman Empire into Britain

    Discussion in 'By the Genre' started by MeadhbhMoryx, Jun 10, 2016.

    Hey guys,
    Any history buffs out there with a keen knowledge of the Ottoman Empire?!
    I want to get them into Britain and to do so in a- as historically reasonable way as possible.
    No laser shooting Aliens!
    Eg: Say if The Holy League naval fleet was destroyed by a storm before the Battle of Lepanto in 1571, could the Empire have then ravaged the coast of Spain??
    And say the Barbury pirates, smelling success joined the pickings and then say a plague followed (as often happens in war time) and killed like 20% of the pop of Spain and France. Any chance the OE could have sucessfully invaded Spain, after a space of time successfully invaded France and then got to England?
    I am adamant to get them into Britain but need a history head to help me! I wish to be somewhat historically reasonable about it if possible. Thanks. :)
     
  2. NiallRoach
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    NiallRoach Contributing Member

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    I'm not an expert on the OE, but this does seem like a very long shot. Consider the distances and therefore the logistics involved in such a series of invasions. The Romans managed to control the eventual Ottoman territory and Britain at the same time, but both were at the extreme ends of the Empire, and the seat of power was almost bang in the middle.

    That said, technology moved on a fair bit in the intervening time, so maybe I'm full of hot air.
     
  3. Robert Musil
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    Robert Musil Contributing Member

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    I think it you set it during the period of French-Ottoman alliance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Ottoman_alliance?wprov=sfla1) and had France providing a lot of logistical help, it might be plausible. Say France is planning an invasion, so the Turks send a bunch of soldiers to help.

    Logistics is the big problem--the Ottomans couldn't even maintain the siege of Vienna long enough to win, and England is like twice as far away, and across a lot of water. They would need to stop somewhere in the middle (like France).
     
    Simpson17866 likes this.
  4. Sam Woodbury
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    Sam Woodbury Member

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    At its height in the 17th century the Ottoman Empire controlled much of what the Roman Empire controlled in the Second Century except for Spain, France (Gaul), Italy, and Britain. The Arabs managed to conquer Visogothic Spain in the eighth century, spreading out in all directions from the Arabian Peninsula to conquer the Levant, North Africa, South Asia, etc. with their center being in Damascus and later Baghdad. Their advance into what is now France was blocked by the Franks in 732 near Poitiers. Maybe an alternative history could allow the Arabs to advance further into Europe, conquering what is now France and Britain instead of just Spain. Probably this would mean that the Carolingian Empire that dominated France and Germany in the eighth and ninth centuries never developed in the first place to allow such a vacuum in Western Europe. Of course it is debatable that the Carolingians were so powerful that they formed a bulwark against Arab expansion (like Constantinople actually did until 1453) or if Spain was already at the end of the world for the Arabs so that any further conquest of Western Europe was unlikely.

    A few centuries later the Turks conquered considerable amounts of Arab and Byzantine territory (which was part of what led to the Crusades) extending as far west as Morocco. Perhaps in an alternate history they would inherit a larger Arab controlled territory in Western Europe, but I don't know if this would result in an Ottoman presence in what we know of as Britain or if it would be Ottomans in an already Arab version of Britain.
     
  5. Iain Aschendale
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    Iain Aschendale Contributed Member Contributor

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    Sounds like Agent of Byzantium. The solution there was in one simple prayer:

    "There is no God but God, and Jesus is his son."

    -St. Muhammad

    Although on a second look, Britannia isn't controlled by the Byzantine Empire, fiddling with religious affiliation is one way there.
     
  6. bonijean2
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    bonijean2 Ancient Artists And Storytellers Rock

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    Perhaps this scenario might work around the time of the Polish-Ottoman Wars (1497) The Poles along with the Teutonic Knights were defeated at the Battle of Cosmin Forest. Since these knights were mostly a mercenary order, it could have been possible that the Ottomans seized some of their trade routes by way of Germany, Poland and the North Sea into Scotland and England - just a thought.
     
  7. Sam Woodbury
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    Sam Woodbury Member

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    No it wasn't under Byzantine control, but it was under Roman control until about 450 or so, when it was taken over by Germanic peoples (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, etc). I was just wondering if an alternate timeline that allowed the Arabs to expand further than Spain into Western Europe could enable Britain to be part of the Arabic world, much of which was under Ottoman control by the 1600s. This would be a long shot too, because it would mean replacing seven or eight centuries of English and most likely French and Flemish history with something else.
     
  8. Ghost Reflection
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    The alliance with France could be a plausible way to get to England, 16th century Anglo-Scottish wars. Making an alliance with France could lead to making one with Scotland, which could be good reason to end up in England. Which, if the Franco-ottoman alliance happened one or two decades earlier than it did, it could work. Still a long shot, but crazier thing in real history have happened. Also, even though Scotland wasn't officially at war with England in the early 16th century, England was still raiding Scottish borders to fend off uprising. Perhaps if the OE could help Scotland fend off the raids it would give them a hand in pulling together an invasion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  9. Lew
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    Lew Contributing Member Contributor

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    I did not know that! Interesting, combined operations against Italy! @Robert Musil 's link sounds like a very plausible point of departure... perhaps a French alliance with the Ottomans to restore a Catholic king in Britain, while the Ottomans are intent on expanding their Islamic rule. Wouldn't take much to bend a very plausible alternative history out of this.

    Logistics? With a toehold in the far Maghreb (western North Africa) they were in a great position break out into the Atlantic with a fleet to raid England, which frequently happened anyway. You might want to expand that alliance to include Spain, or perhaps have Spain's naval power severely curtailed after the Armada debacle: they could interdict the Straits of Gibraltar. Perhaps the Ottomans have an eye also on re-establishing the Andaluz? The Ottomans were the superpower of the time, and the French could find themselves in bed with a dangerous ally. The European "empires" were squabbling warlords in comparison.

    I like this story's potential! Consider a first foray into Ireland, an easier target and good base.

    [​IMG]
     

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