1. wordwizard
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    wordwizard Contributing Member

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    H1N1 Vaccine for pregnant women.

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by wordwizard, Oct 23, 2009.

    I am pregnant. So I am having a hard time deciding whether or not to get this vaccine.
    My province has the highest rate of this flu in all of Canada.

    Pregnant women have a higher rate of getting a more severe form of the flu because of changes in their immune system. Also it can (obviously) be stressful and harmful to the fetus.

    I just can't shake the feeling that putting something into your body while pregnant without it being tested for longterm effects (how could it, for it is a new vaccine) can be something I may regret in the longrun.

    Regardless I am leaning towards getting it. I have had 3 people today telling me to get it. My sister works in a doctors office and she recommends it as well.

    I know a lot of people think that this H1n1 is just another scare, for there is something every year to make people panic.

    I am just not sure I am willing to risk it.
    I need to make this decision soon, because there will be limited vaccines available, and will be available next week!

    If you were in my situation, what would you do?
    Please keep opinions well mannered.
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The method for creating the vaccine has been used for many years now, and has been proven safe and effective. People who have an egg allergy need to avoid the innoculation, because eggs are used to incubate the virus for the vaccine.

    But all the evidence is that the H1N1 virus is a many times greater threat to a pregnant woman or her fetus than any possible uncertainty about the safety of the vaccine.

    In addition to pregnant women, the group at greatest risk is young people between 5 and 24 years of age, as well as people with pre-existing medical conditions which place them at greater risk from respiratory infections.
     
  3. NaCl
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    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

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    One of my daughters is in her second trimester and has decided not to get the H1N1 shot. She doesn't trust the rushed manner in which this inoculation is being manufactured and delivered. She is an autism counselor and believes it was reagents in vaccines that caused or exacerbated some cases of autism. She also does not trust government assurances.

    Our government (U.S.) has a history of mistaken "assurances" (thalidomide babies) and even intentional misconduct like the infliction of syphilis on black men in an experiment and clandestine application of LSD on unsuspecting "test" subjects. Point is, government simply can not be trusted regardless of its good intentions. Even my daughter's personal doctor has decided not to get the vaccine. And, I have a chronic respiratory disease related to chemicals that were sprayed on me in Vietnam (thank you government) but I also will not get this injection.

    Do the best research you can and make the decision that you trust most. My daughter is simply avoiding as many exposure situations as possible and she's paying close attention to such things as hand washing and she keeps a small package of Clorox wipes in her purse. In a few months the disease will have run its course.
     
  4. marina
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    marina Contributing Member Contributor

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    I have no idea what I would do and can only imagine what a difficult decision that would be. If I did decide to get the vaccine, however, I'd make sure it was thimerosal-free.
     
  5. bluebell80
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    bluebell80 Contributing Member

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    I already had the H1N1 flu, ended up in the hospital with pneumonia. However, I've been a smoker for 10 years and tend to have issues with respiratory stuff and my allergies. I've also had pneumonia before, thus I was more apt to getting it. My brother, my aunt, and three cousins all caught it at the same time I did. None of them got it as badly as I did, none of them are smokers either. None of them were pregnant through. I don't know how badly it reacts in a pregnant woman. However, there are risks with the vaccination too, plus no guarantee that the vaccination even works, or isn't full of things like thermosil or squaline (the first is mercury, and the second is a adjuvent oil used to make your immune system go into hyper-drive and has been linked to autism.) So the choice is get the vaccination which could possibly harm you and your baby and won't even work to prevent the flu, or catch the flu and possibly end up losing the baby or dying from complication.

    You could just avoid people for the next few months and wear face masks and wash your hands constantly. Of course the seasonal flu also can cause the same complications that H1N1 can cause in pregnant women. The only thing that seems different with the H1N1 flu seems to be more lung issues. It gets in there and causes you to have a hard time breathing and you will cough for at least three weeks if you don't come down with pneumonia.

    If I had it to do over again, I still don't think I would take the vaccine. Even with knowing I'd be in the hospital, I don't think I'd get the vaccination, I'm not trusting enough of vaccines. I also tend to have bad reactions to the seasonal flu vaccine, so I'd rather not get them.

    That probably didn't help you any. Sorry. It's just a matter of weighing the pros and cons of the situation. It is highly possible that nothing would happen badly to you if you got the vaccination, but there is also a possibility that something bad could happen to you and/or your baby. However, you could also manage to avoid getting the flu and not need the vaccine. You could also catch the flu, have a mild case and be fine, or end up so sick that you're in a coma for three months or die. It's really a crap shoot either way...sorry to say.
     
  6. wordwizard
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    wordwizard Contributing Member

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    I just don't know.
    Everyone makes such good points.

    My husband is against the vaccination. Not for safety reasons, but because he thinks this flu is hyped up.

    I have to agree with him on some points, and I do share the same concerns are NaCl's daughter. I think for now I am just going to lay low and avoid the vaccine. I cannot avoid people because I take/pick up my young daughter to school everyday but I can be extremely aware. I am so thrilled that my daughters school has just put in antibacterial jell pumps (why can't I think of it's name?) around the whole school.

    Surely if I change my mind there will be options for me. If they run out here, I can drive somewhere else?

    I know I am flipping back and forth. I just can't seem to figure it out.

    haha bluebell80. The end of your post made me LOL. I love bluntness.

    I appreciate the opinions!
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Keep in mind that it takes up to two weeks after inoculation before your immune system will build up its protection.

    EDIT: A sincere "Thank you" to Dean Sault, who pointed out to me that I have been consistently misspelling "inoculation" (I have been spelling it "innoculation"). Interestingly, Word's spellchecker would not have caught the error either - it accepts both spellings without complaint. I tried that after he pointed it out.

    There are a couple teachable omoments in this. One is that it is valuable to point out this kind of mistake. I consider myself a pretty decent speller, but I am not infallible. I appreciate any chance to improve.

    The other lesson is that spellcheckers are not primary sources. If you aren't sure about correct spelling, use a reliable dictionary. You can't count on a spellchecker program, or even a toolbar widget. Keep a good dictionary or two handy, and a link to a good online dictionary.
     
  8. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i've been pg 8 times and to tell you the truth, i can't tell you what i'd do, if i were you...

    i guess i'd probably weigh all the pros and cons i could glean from reputable sources and then chalk up the consequences of whatever decision i made, to 'fate'...
     
  9. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    wordwizard, after seeing the reaction my mother had to the vaccine, there is no way I'd ever suggest someone have it. My mother ended up in hospital in a pretty bad way. She has a terminal illness mind you.

    I thought about getting it before that though, and still, I decided against it. Thing is, it was rushed in a major way, and I just don't want to take the risk of having it done and then a few years down the track, find out that my child has something wrong with it because of having the vaccine. Everyone here may say differently, but seriously, NONE of you know what side effects could eventuate from this in a few years time. For me, it just isn't worth it.

    Everyone is carrying on about this flu and to be honest, I am no more concerned about this flu than I am about getting sick full stop. Getting gastro or anything like that could have just as many problems for your pregnancy. So really, it is just about avoiding sick people, like normal in a pregnancy. The best way to avoid it is just to avoid people who are ill or showing ANY flu like symptoms. Though it can lead to a very boring lifestyle.

    At the end of the day, it is your own decision. No one will judge you on whether you do or don't have it. Just do some research, speak with health professionals, and take time to make a final decision. Over 80 people had the vaccine where I live and my mother was the only one to react badly.
     
  10. NaCl
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    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

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    Went to a BBQ gettogether at my daughter's house yesterday. There were numerous people and a bunch of little rug rats. I asked my daughter if this was a good idea since the swine flu is rampaging through our area right now and she is in her second trimester. She said she asked people who had any illness, symptoms or who had even been exposed to ANY flu to please decline her invitation. Amazingly, everyone was sympathetic and cooperative. A couple, who had been exposed, did the right thing and stayed away. I suspect this kind of basic human cooperation and mutual respect is far more effective than taking the risks of a "rushed" H1N1 inoculation.
     
  11. Irish87
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    Irish87 Contributing Member

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    I'm getting over a flu right now. Granted, I didn't get tested to see if I had H1N1, but I have all the symptoms. Either way, it didn't hit me as hard as a friend of mine. Personally, and I could be wrong, I think it's been hyped up by people who thrive on tragedy and emergencies. Is it bad? Of course, but most flu's are. I don't know anyone, including myself, who has ever enjoyed a flu.

    As to the original posters question... I'm afraid to even offer an opinion. When I say it wasn't bad I'm saying that from the perspective of a twenty-two year old guy who hasn't been sick for five years. I'm not exactly healthy, but I'm definitely not pregnant. Nevertheless, I fall under the category of the paranoid few who are deathly afraid of vaccinations and the problems they cause. Then again, I've had every one of them and I'm still somewhat sane.

    Either way, good luck.
     
  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The H1N1 flu has already killed more than a thousand people in the United States alone. Calling that "hyped up" is, to my thinking, burying your head in the sand.

    The epidemiology of H1N1 is somewhat different from that of the seasonal flu. This strain is one for which there is no natural immunity among much of the population. For that reason, it is hitting the under-25 age group harder than the normal flu would. Normally, the younger immune system is more effective at fighting new viruses, but in this case, te younger immune systems are simply not reacting until the infection is more advanced.

    I would make the counter-argument that those who inflate the risks of the vaccine are doing so out of paranoia more than facts.

    The injection is made from killed virus. You cannot get H1N1 from the injected vaccine. The nasal mist is different, because it uses a crippled but live virus. Most people who get the nasal mist do not exhibit a noticeable reaction, but it is not recommended for patients with a diminished immune system. In my opinion, the injected intramuscular vaccine is safer.
     
  13. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yeah, but to actually SEE someone react to the H1N1 injected intramuscular vaccine is NOT nice at all. It really does put you off the whole idea. It is just easier and safer to avoid the larger population and anyone with flu-like symptoms. I'm an antisocial person, so it really doesn't bother me to any extent.
     
  14. Irish87
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    Irish87 Contributing Member

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    So because a thousand people are dead it is something to worry about? Well, shouldn't we then stop driving? The obvious answer is a resounding no. Instead, we take precautions and carry on with our daily lives. A thousand people is nothing in comparison to the normal flu, which kills (I think) about thirty-six thousand a year. I'm sorry, but the piggie flu has a LONG way to go before it scares me.

    I'm far more afraid of what Torana mentioned.
     
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  15. Carmina
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    Carmina Contributing Member Contributor

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    My sister is pregnant. She got the vaccine. She says to get it, but insist on the preservative free version. She says you will feel less sick afterward. Just passing her message along.
     
  16. bluebell80
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    bluebell80 Contributing Member

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    The whole nasal vaccination worries me. I realize it's a weakened version of the virus, but people who get it can have two possible outcomes: Mutation of the H1N1 virus due to already having a seasonal flu present at the time of vaccination, and also shedding the live virus to people who have not had the vaccination.

    Most of the people, including myself, who have either had to be hospitalized or have died have either had weakened immune systems, are smokers, have had pneumonia before, or have asthma. If you aren't in any of those categories then the flu probably won't kill you or put you in the hospital. Pregnant women are not really at higher risk than other people because they are pregnant, but if they fall into any of the above categories they are actually at a higher risk than non-pregnant people. Pregnancy doesn't weaken your immune system, but if you have respiratory issues, allergies, asthma, those kinds of things, then getting H1N1 could put you in the hospital.

    I was in the risky group of people. Besides being a smoker, I have allergies, reactive airways due to allergies, and whenever I get sick with just colds I tend to get bronchitis, sinus infections, and tonsillitis...I also had walking pneumonia about 3 years ago with the bad seasonal flu that was going around then and never got treated for it. If I hadn't gotten to the hospital when I did this time I could have ended up in a breathing machine and an induced coma for weeks. After three days my pneumonia was so bad the doctors were worried. Luckily it was bacterial pneumonia and it responded really well to the antibiotics.

    If you have had seasonal flu vaccinations before and had no problems, it is likely that the H1N1 vaccination (especially if you insist on the preservative free one) won't harm you. Granted the normal seasonal flu vaccination doesn't normally contain squaline (I think that is the spelling) I would also make sure the H1N1 vaccination doesn't contain that either, because that is the additive adjuctive that is pointed at in the Gillian-Barre syndrome (also not sure if that is the correct spelling) that occurred in about 12,000 cases back in the 1970s H1N1 vaccination.

    However, my parents and my in laws both had the 1970s H1N1 vaccination, had no problems, and appear immune to this current H1N1 virus. My parents were both exposed to my brother and I while we were sick and neither of them caught it. My in-laws have also been exposed and neither of them have caught it either. It is possible that the previous vaccination is also providing some protection. And it shows that with the mass vaccination that happened in the 70s, even though it contained similar things this current one has, only resulted in 12,000 affected by adverse reactions out of the millions who got the vaccination (granted it was also a false flag scare back then too.)

    While the H1N1 flu is spreading rapidly, it also doesn't appear that deadly. I know where I caught it, down in Oklahoma, they were reporting 900 cases a week, yet no deaths and minimal hospitalizations. They have had over 20,000 cases just in the Oklahoma city area in the past 3 weeks. No one has died. Some, like my uncle and cousin, are barely showing symptoms. Others, like me, get pneumonia. So it really depends on your immune system, and any other ailments that you may have as to how sick you may get. But isn't that like any other flu?
     
  17. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Strawman fallacy - arguing from an "analogy" that is easier to argue but not at all equivalent.

    The point is, H1N1 has already killed upward of a thousand people in the United States so far, and all the evidences suggests it has not yet peaked, not by a long shot.

    A key difference between this flu and the seasonal flu strains is that there is very little natural immunity in the adult population, particularly among the under-25 segment of the population. A disproportionate number of deaths from H1N1 have taken place in that age group.

    Unlike driving, there is no benefit to catching the flu that might outweigh the risks. You can greatly reduce your risk of catching it by taking a vaccine. All the evidence available says that there is a much, much lower risk from taking the vaccine than there is of taking your chances with H1N1.

    There are those who mistrust anything that has government support. I can sympathise, but I don't believe the facts support that view in this case. Still, if that is your belief, then you will make your decisions accordingly.

    I'll be getting my injection as soon as it is available. I believe in taking reasonable precautions, and really don't enjoy suffering through the flu, even though I do feel I would most likely survive it.
     
  18. Irish87
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    Irish87 Contributing Member

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    Alright, let's say that the H1N1 virus speeds up and thirty-five thousand more people die. Well, then we're even aren't we. As soon as we reach that mark then we should start freaking out like we do every year about the normal flu. OH, that's right, nobody cares about the normal flu season unless they have an illness or health issue which would force them to care. Well, those people and the hypochondriacs.

    My point has never been to ignore the H1N1 flu, but rather to accept that some people will die, just like the normal flu. I find it hilarious, however, that we're so amazingly scared of this, but we don't think at all of the dangerous of driving, of drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes (it's only when we're told by our friends that its dirty that we care, and even then it's only for the sake of appearance not health) or having unprotected sex. We don't care that we eat fatty foods or that we don't exercise enough. Instead, we are so deathly afraid of a flu which has killed only a thousand people that we are willing to put our bodies in potential harm so that we don't have to face something which will most likely NOT kill us.

    I am not arguing against precaution. In fact, I am arguing for it. Whenever the flu season comes I consume as many vitamin enriched foods as I can, as well as exercising to make sure I'm healthy, and (most importantly in my opinion) remaining positive about life and the fact sometimes we die for silly reasons. I am simply against the hysteria and the problems which come with it. If you, whoever you reading this may be, want to get the H1N1 vaccine as a precaution then go ahead. I'm just worried that we've become addicted to this end-of-the-world mentality. Even though I am personally freaked out by the shot, I am not against others getting it. I simply wonder how many of them are doing it because of the hype they've been force fed.

    It's just a flu. I'm more worried about slipping in my shower because the shampoo bottle tipped over.
     
  19. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    That is not the only concern with pregnant women. The concern is that due to the excessive coughing, pregnant women can go into premature labour. Because the cough is so severe and they are unable to suppress the cough, it puts the pregnant woman at a higher risk of going into labour early and I am unsure the health risk that having the N1H1 virus would pose on the child if it were to be born prematurely, but I am sure it could complicate things quite a lot because with premature babies, the slightest little thing can be life threatening to them.

    Hence why doctors encourage pregnant women to have the vaccine. (this is what I was told by staff at the hospital btw)
     
  20. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The CDC disagrees with you.
    What I have heard more than once on news programs is that pregnancy lowers the immune response. I believe this reduces the likelihood of the mother's immune system attacking the developing fetus.
     
  21. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    YOu are 100% correct there Cogito. I was actually watching a program on TV here that talked about the pregnant woman's immune system and how with some pregnant women, it doesn't lower and the immune system attacks the fetus. So yes, we do have a lowered immune response and it does make things tricky in regards to the H1N1 virus.
     
  22. bluebell80
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    Technically it's the lowered T cell counts that make pregnant women more inclined to contract some diseases, like viruses. The immune system in a pregnant woman actually increases in order to provide the fetus with extra protection, but because of the lower T cell count (the reason the body doesn't reject the fetus as a foreign object) it can make the woman more susceptible to highly virulent viruses, which without the already established immunity to the H1N1, it could be considered that.

    The excessive coughing could cause the placenta to become detached, which is what they are concerned about, aside from the pneumonia.

    Some scientists think the vaccinations work great. Some research is showing that even vaccinated people can catch the viruses they are vaccinated against, like the prevalence of whooping cough now showing up in already vaccinated kids, or measles now infecting already vaccinated people. The theory is that even vaccinated, there are now strains that are different enough to cause the virus in already vaccinated people.

    Mind you, the risk of the additives in the vaccinations and the possibility that in a month the vaccination may not protect you from the H1N1 virus should it recombine or mutate to a different form. With as fast as it seems to be spreading, it is only a matter of a few months before it infects someone who is infected with something else at the same time and the virus mutates to a totally different form. It is also possible that those people receiving the weakened nasal live vaccination could also be carrying a flu virus and cause a mutation.

    The thing isn't about not trusting the CDC, it's about all the variables out there that just can't be counted. There are so many possible things that could happen that the CDC can't prepare for them all. The news won't tell us this because they don't want to start a panic. Look at all the people already lining up for the vaccination and the worry they have that people will riot if they run out. If they were to tell people that it is a very good possibility that this vaccination may not protect them in a month from now how would the mass population react? The problem is that a single person is logical and able to reason, but a mass of people are stupid and prone to violent and destructive behavior. This is the model the government and anyone in charge of mass populations run on. You can predict what a mass of people will do. You can't reason with a mass of people. You just have to deal with them. So "they" (the CDC, governments, those in charge) won't say anything that could cause a mass of people to react, thus we only get filtered information.

    So, do as you wish at your own risk. It's kind of like driving or skiing, or flying. You can only be so careful. The rest is kind of up to chance...or whatever you may believe in.
     

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