1. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (theories and discussion - may contain spoilers)

    Discussion in 'Book Discussion' started by Daniel, Jul 20, 2007.

    Okay, I figured it'd be better to make a discussion thread for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows sooner rather than later.

    As of now, since the book hasn't been released yet, I'd like to know your theories on what may or may not happen in the book, and why.

    If your post is going to contain information that might be considered a spoiler (both prior to and after the release), please use the spoiler tag. Please be considerate in this aspect.

    Just under 24 hours till the release!
     
  2. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    *gleeeeee*
    17 hours left!
    Theory time: (Keep in mind these are just my opinions, not definite or even informed bits of info. I don't think there are any real spoilers, but if anyone has a gripe, I shall hide it.):
    1. I think Harry's a horcrux
    2. I think Snape works not for good or evil, but for his own best interests.
    3. I don't think Hogwarts will reopen, and if it does, Harry won't be there for very long.
    4. Luna and Neville will get together
    5. Harry will die, but Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death.
    6. Ron and Hermione will get together.
    7. The climactic fight between Harry and Voldemort will take place at the Veil, which we will learn more about in this book.
    8. Voldemort has a passionate love affair with the Giant Squid!!!11!1!one1!

    (Oh, and by the way, it's Deathly Hallows, with an 'a'.)
     
  3. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    On the off chance someone has not read The Half Blood Prince:

    I suspect that Dumbledore's death was pre-arranged by himself and Snape, and was sealed with an Unbreakable Vow. He may in fact not be dead, but his consciousness may now live within Snape's body. Since this undoubtedly also meant that Snape already gave his life to allow Albus entry, he would not have had to fear the consequences of the Unbreakable Vow he took at Spinner's End.

    That would allow Dumbledore to infiltrate the Death Eaters, and would also fit with his unwavering trust of Severus.

    Even if Dumbledore is completely dead, though, I believe Snape's escape was a plan to get close to Voldemort.
     
  4. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    These are very good theories. Very good. I think you're wrong about #3 - but seriously, everything else sounds very very plausible.

    Opps... thanks!

    Cogito - also great ideas. I don't think you're right, but I think it's possible.
     
  5. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    What...even number 8? o_O
     
  6. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    To Cogito:

    Wouldn't Dumbledore being alive in that sense break the vow of the spell? Though I do believe it is entirely possible that his death was scripted as it will undeniably gain Snape further access into Voldemort's lair. Perhaps we'll have another trip to the pensieve? Nothing can truly kill a good idea. Dumbledore may have a Horcrux as well for all we know.
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    adamant

    (Again, spoilers with respect to The Half-Blood Prince
    Dumbledore being alive would break Snape's pact with Narcissa and Bellatrix, but if Snape already gave his life to fulfil his pact with Dumbledor FIRST, the sisters' pact couldn't do anything to stop him.

    The Pensieve has been used a great deal already, but I wouldn't count it out entirely.

    As for Dumbledore having a horcrux, I don't believe he would on moral grounds.
     
  8. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    Cogito

    Wait, what is the pact with Albus that you're referring to?

    I'm not sure what conflicting vows would do to someone. Could they nullify, or possibly override one another? My guess would be that he is still held accountable for the Unbreakable Vow -- though the view of him not having a life to give is interesting. The thing I'm stuck on is that Dumbledore would have to die (I'm going to re-read that passage), and him simply living in another vessel doesn't seem to fulfill the promise made.

    Alright, not a horcrux specifically, but some other way. Actually... that couldn't happen because Voldemort would have thought of that route first.

    Assuming Albus really is gone for good, I think there would be some way for Harry to receive some more instruction from him. Maybe we get to go back to the veil that swallowed Sirius way back when. And what about that mirror that he gave him? Perhaps it's due to the fact that I haven't read HP in a while, but I don't remember much happening with it.

    Not to mention, there are all of those pictures in the office of the headmaster.

    Using the spoiler feature makes me feel like a spy. Haha.
     
  9. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I think it's all in the portraits in the office.
    Also: Has anyone else thought that Dumbledore might become a ghost...?
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    adamant, Ivan:

    (Again, spoilers with respect to The Half-Blood Prince)

    adamant, I was referring to a hypothetical prior Unbreakable Vow made between Snape and Dumbledore. Dumbledore has been very clear all along that he completely trusts Snape. Such a prior vow to Dumbledore, carefully worded by him would be a strong basis for that certainty.

    Since the vow to Dumbledore would also cause Snape to voluntarily give up his life, the fact that the concommitant breaking of the vow to Narcissus and Bellatrix would kill Snape is pretty much redundant. For that reason, Snape took that second vow fearlessly.

    The mirror that Sirius gave Harry went inert after Sirius was lost through the arch, That was Harry's strongest evidence that Sirius was truly dead.

    The portrait of a dead Dumbledore could pass along some information. That's an interesting possibility.

    Ghost is also a possibility, too, I suppose. Seems a bit too mundane for Dumbledore though.

    Obviously, Minerva McGonnagal will be the next Headmaster.

    Incidentally, anyone notice that the curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts seems to still be in effect? Regardless of Snape's fate, he is finished teaching that class. I would almost bet that Snape teaching that class was an element leading up to whatever pact or agreement Dumbledore may have had with Snape.
     
  11. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    Cogito once again...

    I suppose it is possible that Snape took the vow with Albus due to the fact that Severus is so skilled in Legilimency and still Dumbledore trusted him so given his background. But the problem is, we don't know what the promise would have been about. I wish we knew of the 'Bonder' that oversaw the vow taking place.

    Also, what do you believe that Dumbledore was begging for as Snape stepped in? (Wiki refreshed my memory)

    As for your speculations regarding Snape and the position of the DADA teacher, why would he have been so eager to gain that post all this time if it was part of Dumbledore's plan?
     
  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    adamant

    Because he is a true member of the Order of the Phoenix, and wants to see a fainal end to Voldemort.

    Also, It mat be noth a plan by Dumbledore AND a prophecy.

    I believe Snape owes some great debt to Dumbledore, which he honestly wants to repay in full. Taking down Voldemort would balance the books and place him in a position of honor. Any of the Order would gladly give his or her life for such an outcome.
     
  13. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    But there were no real signs of Voldemort's existence. Even if they knew he was alive, Snape wouldn't have been able to find him, or do much -- and I doubt he can kill Riddle single-handedly. Thusly, his eagerness is for naught.

    Eh. If only the hours would pass quicker. UPS, come here with breakneck speed!
     
  14. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    Aha! I have the book, it is 2:02 AM, and I have officially read 103 pages. This is what I have to say: (don't worry, it's not exactly a doozy)

    HEDWIG!!!!! D= D= D= *waaaa*

    That will be all. Thank you.
     
  15. powertodream
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    powertodream Member

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    Definitely not my favorite book in the series. I did not like the ending, at all. I could have written a better ending. Or just
    cut out the dang epilogue
    .

    Also, I was very not big on
    them not going back to school. There was a recurring plot throughout it all, go somewhere, meet Voldemort/Voldemort cronies, fight them, only nearly get away, run somewhere else, repeat ad nauseum

    Definitely not the best.
     
  16. Novel Novice
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    Novel Novice Member

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    Well, I have secured my copy. Got myself up at a bleak 5:40 AM to get to the nearest grocery store opening at 6 (okay, not the craziest of wake-up times, but pretty good right?) Can't wait to start reading. Have fun everyone.
     
  17. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    And I have just picked up my copy, so I won't be looking back at this thread until I have finished the book. I plan tp tale my time and enjoy it. So don't think I'm ignoring you if you respond to something I said earlier and hear only crickets...
     
  18. Kit
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    Kit Contributing Member Contributor

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    I queued at midnight for the book, at a local 24hr supermarket, and then went straight home and started reading it. I went to bed three hours later - since my eyes just wouldn't stay open any longer - and then six hours later was up and reading again... anyways the point is... I finished it about two and a half hours ago :D

    Anyways there are spoilers below so don't read if you don't want to ruin it for yourselves:

    Overall I thought that the book was very good, but there were things that I didn't like. I liked the idea of having an epilogue in principle, but that one just didn't do anything for me... lol and towards the end the book did get very very predictable.

    I have to say... poor Hedwig!

    I was expecting one of the bigger characters to die off, as in Harry, Ron or Hermione but was sad to see Lupin go :( Especially after he'd just realised that Harry was right when he said he needed to be with his son etc instead of rushing into danger with the three of them.

    Also, I didn't like the fact that so much of it was set away from Hogwarts, which has pretty much been the focal point of the rest of the books. It also seemed like the "smaller" characters took an even bigger back seat in this book which made it harder to miss them when they died... I know what I mean :D
     
  19. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    It's 11:20 PM, Friday the 21st, August 2007, and I, age 13, just finished Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

    I mean no hint of self-mockery or exaggeration when I say: It's a masterpiece. The ending is perfect. It is absolutely, undeniably perfect. =;D

    EXTREME SPOILERS following.

    Sure the deaths were sad; but they were necessary. It's a war, people. And the characters JK chose to die were perfect- their sacrifices and losses were the most meaningful for their respective situations, and their treatments were perfectly fitting and respectful. From Dobby to Fred, I thought JK handled it well (As long as we've got that one twin left, the world has hope! =D ) As for the other, more primary characters like Lupin, Tonks, etc...the Resurrection Stone in the forest was a beautiful piece. Just enough to give consolation and not so much as to feel like cheating.

    People say they don't like Harry being away from Hogwarts, but I thought it was a wonderful, novel change that shows...well, change. Come year seven, things have changed in the wizarding world, and having the Main Trio on the run, relying on their own wits, works out, especially the joy readers will get seeing their heroes work everything out for themselves (In particular, seeing Hermione crash the Trio through Xeno's house to escape the Death Eaters was fun to read; exciting movie fodder right there! JK knows when to be thoughtful and when to give us wonderful, thoughtless action.) And for those suffering Hogwarts Deprivation: Just as the Resurrection Stone apologized the pain of death, the Battle of Hogwarts chapter totally covered for the lack of Hogwarts in the rest of the book. Seeing the teachers, students, and actual castle itself jump into action gave me a thrill of excitement for the residents of Hogwarts that, even in the joy of other HP books, I have never experienced before. Seeing all my favorite characters rely on their oddball ways like tossing Mandrakes over a roof and bewitching a cavalry of desks was an experience that sent fits of laughter through my body even as I read on, desperately wanting to know what happened next.

    The epilogue: Let it be, people, it did no harm to you. If I had to find a gripe about it, it could only be this: There's no George! =D But I'm sure he's doing fine on himself (Hence the happy smiley. When there's a Weasley twin out of sight, you know he's up to something!)

    The death and rebirth of Harry Potter was wonderfully executed; I'd suspected for a long time that Harry was a horcrux, but never that Voldemort also contained Harry. But when you think back on it, you can't really call it cheating- all the clues were there to be picked up on! It was up to how smart we were to figure it out- and those of us (read: me) too dumb to see it coming didn't feel ashamed, because we were too busy having a great time reading this book. Also, Dumbledore's line about what is real and what is in Harry's head at the end of the King's Cross chapter sent delighted chills down my spine (Although, to be honest, Mrs. Weasley has by far the best line in the book in The Flaw In the Plan; I think most people will know what I mean. =D

    So, in short: I can not gush about this book enough, and disgusted though you may be, all my worries, fears, and anxieties were vanquished; it was all quite wonderful to read, and I think JK Rowling can definitely retire happy (Although I hope she doesn't- I don't need more Harry Potter, but if she stopped writing books totally, I would be greatly dismayed!) with the satisfaction of a job well done.

    Thank you.
     
  20. Edward
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    Edward Active Member

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    Well, I just finished the final Harry Potter book, just twenty minutes shy of my twenty four hour deadline. (Oh why oh why did I have to go to sleep for eight hours? why oh why did I play Metal Gear Ac!d2 for two hours? Why oh why did I eat those sloppy joes... ugh...) I mean, it only took like... carry the one... lets say ten hours to read, but it wasn't within my goal mark.

    I have one major complaint though:
    why are the Slytherins all evil?! I barely remember the droning story that was Half-Blood Prince, but I recall Slorace Hughorn being a pretty okay guy, and yet at the end he was siding with Riddle. (that's another thing I liked, Harry called him Riddle) Why is it that despite Regulus Black becoming a good guy (and, like, dying when he could have just gone back...) and Harry telling Albus Severus that Slytherins aren't bad, and even Malfoy(s) being less of a tool near the end, then why were there no Slytherins in the D.A.? I mean damnit, if they were all bad why even bring the damn House back? if the Slytherins never did anything and where all dark wizards then why even let more of them grow? I mean, that's just horrible writing to have them all be evil, and I've thought that threw the whole series.

    In other news, that epilogue made me smile and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. too warm and fuzzy. I kinda wonder who Draco married. Also, I think it Ron should have named his kid Fred.

    Now for things I need cleared up for me withot having to reread all six of the other ones:
    1. When did he put the diadem on that statue? book one or something? cause I really don't remember, I thought in the first one it just held the mirror and all.
    2. I don't remember Draco taking Dumbledore's wand...
    that's about it, also you were pretty spot on with your guesses Ivan, floored me. Especially the squid sex.

    When's the last book of Inheritance come out? Ah Hell, what am I gonna read without Harry Potter and Dragon-Star Wars?!
     
  21. LionofPerth
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    LionofPerth Senior Member

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    I finished it in, just under five hours, and I think it was a good ending to the series. Maybe not a very good ending, but a good ending.

    Crazy Ivan is right about most of it, the characters that had to die, died, although, I'm not sure how to count Dobby in the grand scheme of things.

    Really, I mean the whole thing with the Hallows, and his Invisibility Cloak, can't say I was too surprised by it, but the Resurrection Stone being left in the Forest by Harry, I would have gone looking for it to hide it in Hogwarts, leaving this Elder wand with Dumbledore, the second last person to win it.

    The other complaint I have about it is the lack of variety of spells used by Harry, I mean Ron and Hermione are the equivalent of a field battery of 205mm guns next to what he was casting.
     
  22. crashbang
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    crashbang Active Member

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    nice book to read, it was. and you know about that thing with certain books, how you cant put them down... i could put tis book down, but wit effort, and suddenly seeing everything else i have to do as strangely...insignificant compared to reading the book.
    and i did. and i feel strangely satisfied now. its a great book, answered everything, and i love the bit when...never mind. the epilogue was i think, something JK just had to add in, to finish the epic story finally.

    good book overall, and hopefully they'll replace shakespeare n english lessons (no offence, just find it really boring and outdated)
     
  23. Crazy Ivan
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    Edward:

    1. He put the diadem on the statue in Book Six, I'm guessing, when he first found the room where everything was hidden. I don't remember the specific moment, but it seems right.
    2. I think Draco took Dumbledore's wand to kill him with, but he didn't have the guts, so Snape did it. (Well, that's not TECHNICALLY why Snape did it, but you know what I mean.)

    Also, about the Slytherin thing: I can't account for the adults, but for the kids of Slytherin house, I just have to say: Kids are little b__tards. It's true. I should know.
     
  24. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I have finished my first reading of the Deathly Hallows.

    Book 7 spoilers!
    My first reaction i: What a body count, especially for something considered to be a children's book!
    This is by far the darkest and most violent of the Harry Potter books. That's not surprising, but the degree of escalation of violence did surprise me somewhat.

    Still, I thought it was very well done. Many great acts of heroism and compassion, but it could have benefitted from some comic relief.

    All told, I think it was an excellent conclusion to the series, while leaving doors open for more adventures in this world, but not what I would call a delightfull reading experience.
     
  25. Kit
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    Kit Contributing Member Contributor

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    Our school actually studies one of the Harry Potter books for AS level... but I don't do any English literature so I don't know which one or why lol.
     

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