Hated cliches

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by John the ninja, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Oh dear. Well, I'll just slink off now. I guess I'm out of step. :)
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Again, though, we get into the conflict between art/entertainment and history books.

    If we look at the modern world as depicted in our popular media, we'd find most of the the portrayals to be much more dramatic than reality, right? Modern crime dramas and gunfights and war movies don't depict the day-to-day realities of the modern world, either.

    I totally agree with you that there's a problem if people are looking at the art/entertainment media as their source of historical information. Someone watching Deadwood isn't getting an accurate version of the 1870s any more than someone watching The Deer Hunter is getting an accurate version of the 1970s, or someone watching True Detective is getting an accurate version of modern life. And I guess everyone (hopefully?) recognizes this for the more modern shows, but you're worried they don't recognize it for the older shows?

    Fair enough, but I'd argue that's a problem with the viewers, not the shows.
     
  3. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    @jannert

    Well of course it was MUCH MUCH MUCH more then just criminals.

    You'd have to be prety uneducated or really young to think that 1800s America was all outlaws and gunfights (not you jan of course but speaking in general). I hope it didn't seem like I was implying that.....:p that be like saying everyone nowadays is a criminal.

    Apologies if I did.

    Nah.

    Just as a writer myself.

    I just tend to write a particular type of thing and of course the goal even with any sort of writing (I don't care if its fantasy or crime or coming of age or a mix of them all), the goal should to have things tug at your emotions (be that making you cry, entertaining you or making you think) and the way to do that to me is focusing on the human condition and just emotions.

    Be it the focus on a person looking for a new life or a criminal doing ...things for a number of reasons.

    But me personally would probably do a crime story set then.

    I'd wanna do other stuff to but if I did a western I'd probably incorporate some sort of criminality in it just as that's the genre that speaks to me currently the most. A lot of my characters (not all) about forty percent I've made have very very bad impulse control.

    So that can sometimes result in crime or result in them damaging the life of another more rational characters and then things tend just snowball from there. That's only one example but just giving you an idea as to why I'd probably end up writing a crime book.

    I'd wanna do it as faithfully (history wise) as possible though towith focus on the other things as well happening at the time :D. Will certainly check out Lonesome Dove and Elmer Kenton's stuff as well historical records most certainly historcial records or writing if I ever wrote about then.:)


    Nah XD

    I just found it funny that they are actually making a show that's like actually supposed to be an over the top western on purpose but it is also set in a theme park or it should be. Westworld's an old 70s sci-fi movie about a cowboy simulation that goes out of control.
     
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  4. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    To be fair.

    I've always viewed it as simply the most interesting month to several years in the most interesting person's life. I mean fantasy wise you can get away with it a little more and not be seen as to dramatic if ya do it well because that's already about someone who is in someways not normal or at the very least involved in an out of the world situation or its a story off planet.

    Same goes for sci-fi to an extent.

    But when it comes to stories set here, in the present (or in the past) and they are presented as realistic my excuse or well most of the time was that its the most 'interesting' month to several years (depending how long the book or show or whatever is. One shot or series...etc) of that character's life.

    If that makes sense? There are over seven billion people on the planet at this point (I think) and that's not even counting the past and all the people that have died one way or another since we as humans have been doing our existing thing. That's more then enough time and people for some really crazy crazy, bizzare, weird and terrible things go down.

    And I totally agree we play up the drama aspects more for our fiction but art imitates life. ;)

    I mean Deadwood, Deer Hunter and True Detective.

    There have certainly been unsavory killers and businessmen in the west back in the day (not all of course or even close but they were there as they are now. Always been bad folk), there are some pretty pretty horrible true Vietnam stories as well and coming home from that war true stories as well and there has defintely been crazy cults ....heck that Peoples Temple killed a US Represenative. Now yes those are extreme examples but life in general can be just wild as our fiction sometimes. So I always viewed those big drama works (like a chaotic crime story of some kind or some horrible act commited ) as one of those kinda events that are just strange or terrible enough to be true. Of course its dolled up a bit most of the time for our entertainment.

    But ....hope I'm making sense though? Real life and fiction can be quite reflective of each other even if it it doesn't seem like it.. Not just with westerns or crime though but almost everything we create storytelling wise (all the genres and stuff) I'd say :)

    Just as probably many real life stories (some recorded in history and some not) that sound like they came out a fiction as there are many fiction stories.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  5. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    To be fair to the baby, it doesn't know its family/group is trying to hide and survive. :p But yeah, when a baby is on screen, I immediately wonder: (a) Something bad's gonna happen to the baby or (b) the baby will reveal the protagonist's location in a tense scene when the villain is looking for protagonist.
     

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