Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Andrae Smith
    Offline

    Andrae Smith Gone exploring... in the inner realm... Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Wandering

    HOLD UP! Is Water a Human Right?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Andrae Smith, Dec 13, 2013.

    So I was casually perusing my Facebook news feed when I see the link to this unsettling article staring me in the face. As it turns out, while we are trying to go about our daily lives, multinational conglomerate corporations are debating whether WATER is a public right, whether WATER should be owned...

    http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/05/nestle-ceo-water-is-not-a-human-right-should-be-privatized.html

    Now I know there is some fact checking to be down concerning this, as with anything of the sort, but it is disconcerting that this man, out of his own mouth, puts business above people, and admits that there is a question on the table as to whether water should be privatized. There is very obvious persuasion going on in the article itself, but I don't think we should discredit the topic, for it is becoming more clear that major corporations are trying to form monopolies over food supply and natural resources.

    The question is, when everything is owned, will these entities have the power to buy humanity? We are a simple species, just passing through like the rest of the worlds living organisms, yet we think we can own and privatize anything and everything. With that kind of thinking, do we have a fighting chance at prolongued survival? Will we destroy ourselves after so many decades?

    That has nothing to do with the article itself, but it is note-worthy speculation from my perspective...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    The question is what makes water any different than food, or land? When we say water is a human right, we must also ask ourselves who is responsible for getting the water to people or making sure everyone has water?
     
  3. Andrae Smith
    Offline

    Andrae Smith Gone exploring... in the inner realm... Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Wandering
    I agree with that statement, really. We can't look at water as any different, but should we look at privatization as the way to do? I am, more or less against the idea of ownership when it comes to any of the natural resources such as food or land. It makes no sense to me. And before you or anyone brings up "well what about the house you live in and the clothes and other private property?"question, please don't. I'm of the moral belief that if humans could respect each other and the planet, we could live without the need for total privatization. But that's not what I mean. For the purposes of this thread, I'm talking about corporate privatization/ownership?

    Technically we're already paying for water, but is it right to give complete control over the supply to entities whose sole interest is profit?
     
  4. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Well gee, while you're at it, why not question if a right to life exists? :rolleyes:
     
  5. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    It's a serious issue that will only get worse with the climate disruption. One the one hand you have the argument one needs private markets to develop the water sources and on the other side you have the obvious problems that creates when people cannot afford water.

    A lot of people are unaware that control of potable water sources and arable (irrigate-able) land is one of the core issues of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It's not just about settlements and right of return.


    In Historic Vote, UN Declares Water a Fundamental Human Right
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
    Andrae Smith likes this.
  6. obsidian_cicatrix
    Offline

    obsidian_cicatrix I ink, therefore I am. Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,711
    Likes Received:
    1,453
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Interesting subject.

    Here in Northern Ireland, domestic users do not pay for water. I have no doubt it will happen eventually—there was a bill passed in March 2013 that says that plans to implement charges will not be attempted before 2016.

    The water carrying infrastructure needs an overhaul... that's gonna take big bucks and the populace recognise this, but the government also realise that it's a tricky thing to get the public on side given that we haven't been charged for water before. (And lets face it, our past here tends to make some sections of the community more prone to displays of public dissent than most.)

    Many of us remember when the majority of our essential industries were privatised during Thatcher's years in office. We were told that it would lead to more consumer choice in terms of service and charges. Hmmm... well, yes... there's a choice of suppliers now. I can now choose to use green energy so that's been an unexpected bonus but, this year alone, my current electricity supplier put up its charges by 30%. Now, I'm no great mathematician, but given the rate of inflation (and pay increases) that seems a tad excessive.

    Thing is, we live in Northern Ireland. It rains. A lot. It's not green for no good reason. Water is something we should have an abundance of. I understand that the necessity to improve mains etc does not come without cost. I'm just not so sure that the handling of one of our greatest resources should be given over to companies that serve their own profit margins first and foremost, rather than the needs of the people.
     
    jannert likes this.
  7. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    This idea of paying for your own water was brought up by Jesse Ventura, and I also saw something about it on television. State governments around the Great Lakes made it illegal for companies to filter water out of the Great Lakes and sell it as bottled water. However, it didn't stop companies like Nestle building plants on tributaries of the Great Lakes as close as one mile away.

     
  8. Gallowglass
    Offline

    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Loch na Seilg, Alba
    So under this plan if someone cannot afford water - be that through their own fault or otherwise - then they and their dependents wouldn't be able to drink? I have no idea whether that's true or not, but that's what it's being presented as out there on the interwebs, and nothing would surprise me anymore.

    I'm ruling out land as we don't need it to live. As for food, we can grow our own. We can't grow our own water. If it's privatised there won't be any way for those who can't afford it to access it, short of government intervention or the kindness of strangers.
     
  9. MmePlanetKIller
    Offline

    MmePlanetKIller Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    7
    Don't need land to live? Where do you think your food grows?
     
  10. mammamaia
    Offline

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    where the water comes from is the issue... if its source is on private land, then no one has the right to it other than the owner of the land and whomever he grants that right to...

    if the source is on public land, then of course the water 'belongs' to anyone who wants to partake of it and no individual can deny it to another, unless the governing body of that area says so... and if the government is being unfair, the citizens have the right to challenge its handling of the water...

    in the case of rivers or lakes that have multiple land-owners and government agencies controlling various parts of them, no one owner/entity has the moral right to deny use to the others, though in cases where a dam is built, or river water is depended on by more than one state or nation, morality seems to be tossed out the window [see california's ages old battle with arizona over water rights to the colorado and gila rivers]
     
  11. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    Even with government/municipal ownership of water services, if you don't pay they shut it off. It's hard to think of a 'right' to have water delivered to your home through the modern infrastructure required to do so. Public waterways should be accessible to all.
     
  12. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Usually there are emergency provisions in utility districts in the US not to turn off heat in the winter and water any time of the year when people cannot pay. As a last resort these utilities can be shut off, but utilities are not quite the same as for example, repossessing your car.


    Here are some examples:
    In Idaho:

    Apparently in the UK they are a tad more humane than in the US:
    Australia also has provisions for unpaid utilities.
     
  13. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    Missouri has such a law, but there are plenty of loopholes for the utilities to get around because of the way the regulations work. I worked on some cases for people who had their electricity shut off nevertheless, even after the time period for the cold weather rule to go into effect.
     
  14. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    Not sure how life equals water, but I think food is closer in comparison.
     
  15. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    You're not sure?

    http://chemistry.about.com/od/waterchemistry/f/How-Much-Of-Your-Body-Is-Water.htm

    http://www.livescience.com/32320-how-long-can-a-person-survive-without-water.html

    Are you sure food is more important than water?
     
  16. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    No, that's not what I said. I said if we are going to talk about water being a right, we can start by looking at the privatization of food.

    I'm not an idiot. I fully understand the importance of both food and water in survival. But the question is in regards to 'rights'.
     
  17. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I'm speechless.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  18. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    Perhaps you would like to join the discussion instead of your usual attacks and vitriol? Or speechless is probably in everyone's best interest...
     
  19. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    According to the Declaration of Independence, we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Water is one of the most basic givers of life, so why should it be any different? You can't have food of any type without water. With water you can farm and grow your own food. Do you know what you get without water? Mars, a planet of dust and nothingness.
     
    Andrae Smith likes this.
  20. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    Agreed. What's your point?

    I guess the term 'right' must be defined. Perhaps it should be phrased, 'access to water' is a right. But that doesn't mean that it is the responsibility of someone else to give it to you. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are passive rights. A right to water means that society will prevent others from preventing you from getting water.
     
  21. MLM
    Offline

    MLM Banned for trolling

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Kansas City
    The question is political. Which rights do we hold more fundamental? Which rights do we see as superseding the claims of other rights? Property rights or human rights? Which class of people receives power over others and/or over themselves if the one set of rights is granted supremacy over the other? The choosing between the two is a political decision indicative of one's position in the system of power relationships within society and their imaginings of what an desirable system of relationships would be.
     
    Andrae Smith likes this.
  22. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    Yes, yes, getting clean water is a human right, and everyone deserves it.
    This makes me sad.
     
  23. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Well according to this post:
    You failed to communicate whatever point you were trying to communicate.

    Perhaps you might restate your point.
     
  24. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    Know what? This whole thread makes me sad.
     
  25. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    That doesn't make any sense. You should have the right to water, but not to have someone give it to you? That's contradiction of the utmost. Companies like Nestle have found a loophole and have lined the pockets of politicians to use it. The water of the Great Lakes is protected by the U.S., yet these water bottling companies are setting up shop just up stream and sucking the same water into their plants. There is no difference between the two.

    While looking for some information I found this funny little article. It says that Great Britain actually owns the rights to the Mississippi River.

    http://llstuler.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/the-united-states-doesnt-own-the-mississippi-river/
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page