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  1. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Holding doors and such

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by VM80, Aug 31, 2011.

    Someone told me a story about some woman throwing a class-A wobbly, because he'd dared to hold the door open for her.

    Since when has that become 'offensive'?

    Personally, I'll hold doors for anyone. Very often I let other people go before me, to board the bus, train etc. Men, women... doesn't matter.

    Do you? Have you ever encountered problems with what - I assumed - was just common courtesy?
     
  2. Wes
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    Wes Member

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    It's the whole notion of the Women's Movement. They want to be treated as equals and that means not holding doors, not pulling their chairs out at resteraunts, etc. Things I still believe in personally. Being born and raised with Southern Manners. Just my two cents. But I have heard of some being offended. It's crazy.
     
  3. Dante Dases
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    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

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    People will find anything offensive. Even common decency.

    Unfortunately, people who have common decency these days seem to be getting rarer. I remember a couple of years ago (back when I was commuting to uni every day) I gave up my seat for a pregnant woman around Durham. She'd had to walk about a third of the way up the carriage before she came to me. I then struck up a conversation with a friendly chap who congratulated me on having manners. He made the point that people just don't think these days, they're absorbed in listening to their iPod on loud, or have their nose in the newspaper, much to the detriment of people who sometimes need that seat more than us. Even in the priority seats this happens - I've seen pregnant women, elderly people and all kinds of disabled individuals unable to sit in the seats nominated for them, simply because someone able-bodied wanted a place to sit on their way to work or whatever.

    I also insist on holding doors open - and then complain loudly when someone doesn't thank me. This doesn't happen particularly often, to be fair. It used to be the foreign students, and that was more of a cultural thing, I think. Only once have I got any criticism for holding a door open, and I just pointed out that I'd do it regardless, whether it makes me sexist in her mind or not.
     
  4. Dante Dases
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    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

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    People will find anything offensive. Even common decency.

    Unfortunately, people who have common decency these days seem to be getting rarer. I remember a couple of years ago (back when I was commuting to uni every day) I gave up my seat for a pregnant woman around Durham. She'd had to walk about a third of the way up the carriage before she came to me. I then struck up a conversation with a friendly chap who congratulated me on having manners. He made the point that people just don't think these days, they're absorbed in listening to their iPod on loud, or have their nose in the newspaper, much to the detriment of people who sometimes need that seat more than us. Even in the priority seats this happens - I've seen pregnant women, elderly people and all kinds of disabled individuals unable to sit in the seats nominated for them, simply because someone able-bodied wanted a place to sit on their way to work or whatever.

    I also insist on holding doors open - and then complain loudly when someone doesn't thank me. This doesn't happen particularly often, to be fair. It used to be the foreign students, and that was more of a cultural thing, I think. Only once have I got any criticism for holding a door open, and I just pointed out that I'd do it regardless, whether it makes me sexist in her mind or not.
     
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  5. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I almost always hold a door open for people unless I'm in a real hurry. I consider that just being polite. I don't mind if no one thanks me for it (though I do like it, who wouldn't?) and I don't do it for praise. I do it because I like being nice to people. But. Once I held a door open for this woman who then looked angry at me and said 'I don't need a man to hold a door open for me' so I said simply 'fine then' and shut it in her face.

    Making a symbolic gesture against inequality/Just being rude and inconsiderate.
     
  6. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i've always held doors for guys, as well as other women, if i'm there first and someone is right behind me... seeing it as merely a gender thing is idiotic, imo...
     
  7. mugen shiyo
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    mugen shiyo Contributing Member

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    Was he wearing any clothes when he held it open :p
     
  8. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    This reminds me of something I encountered recently: there was a man on the bus, able-bodied, maybe fifty-something, who insisted a heavily pregnant girl gave up her 'priority seat' for him, because he was 'older'. She did. I guess his age made it ok for him to act like a prick...

    I think manners (and common sense) should be universal.

    I'm sorry to say I didn't quite think to ask... but yes, I assume he was, seeing as they were in town or somewhere outside.
     
  9. NikkiNoodle
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    NikkiNoodle Active Member

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    When I was young, very young, I found it insulting although I never said as much out loud. I would think, "What, like I can't pull a door open myself?"

    But as I've aged...oooh, I dont like the way THAT sounds... I've come to realize that it's not a statement about the ability of someone to do something for themselves but a gesture of simple kindness. I always make sure to include a smile when I open the door for someone, man or woman. Several times I've had men take the door from me and give me the, "after you," motion. Then I smile and say thank you and don't snub the offer. In essence, it's giving someone else preference. On the occasion that I do get an odd look or even completely ignored...I try, sometimes unsuccessfully, to shrug and go about my business.
     
  10. shadowwalker
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    shadowwalker Contributing Member Contributor

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    My brother had that happen to him, many years ago - he held the door for a woman and she practically beat him over the head with it. Good grief.

    But around here (upper Midwest, farming, small town) everybody just holds the door for whoever's following - or whoever has an armful, or kids, or elderly, or... well, we just hold doors, I guess. :p
     
  11. cruciFICTION
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    cruciFICTION Contributing Member Contributor

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    Same thing happened to me once. Only I said something more along the lines of, "And I don't need your feminist rubbish." And I stared her down until she walked through the door.

    I personally can't stand feminism. It's kind of redundant nowadays the way I see it. It was a good thing back in the day, but I'd rather go for the whole gay equality stuff. That's a bigger issue.

    Every feminist I've ever met seems to be against the idea of men helping them as though we're only helping them because they're incapable. That's not why we - or at least I - do it. I do it because I like to be nice to women. I came out of a woman. I'll be nice to women forever for that.
     
  12. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    As it should be. :cool:
     
  13. NikkiNoodle
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    NikkiNoodle Active Member

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    Loved this.
     
  14. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    I hold a door open for anyone passing through behind me, male or female. So do most people I know. Anyone offended by it has issues of their own to deal with and that shouldn't deter us from the proper behavior.

    I do know plenty of "feminists" who are quite fond of men and do not get offended by help from them, or anyone else. I think those who get upset by this sort of thing are in the minority.
     
  15. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Amen to that. One of my girlfriend's friends is a self-confessed anti-male feminist, and she's maybe the most obnoxious person I've ever met. I took my girlfriend to out to dinner once and she honestly said as we left 'You just want to bed her don't you?' It would have taken a saint to restrain the 'f*ck you' that came out of my mouth.
     
  16. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Odd.

    My last girlfriend was not only a feminist but a professor of Women's Studies at a fairly well-known (and very liberal) University. And she was quite the opposite. One of the nicest people I've ever met; perfectly happy to let me do things for her, and she also did nice things for me.
     
  17. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    She was odd. But she is a real man-hating feminist. I'm not being nasty either, she's rather proud of that.
     
  18. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    I've come across a few of them, but luckily not most. My roommate a few years back was also an ardent feminist, but quite pleasant as well.

    Maybe it is the type of feminism they adhere to. The unpleasant individuals I have met tend to be radical feminists (which feminists often seem to me to have chips on their shoulders). On the other hand, I suppose you'd categorize my ex as a liberal feminist.

    That said the various categories are somewhat fluid. She was of the view that a lot of what some feminists do basically assumes from the start that the patriarchal value system is the proper one, so there is a bit of radical feminism there (I think; I'm not an expert in this by any means). But the more hardcore radical feminists are more likely, in my experience, to be unpleasant individuals. Just like people of any group, regardless of gender, who have a chip on their shoulder can be unpleasant.
     
  19. Dante Dases
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    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

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    How can you be proud of hating half the human race?

    In fairness, I regard all but a select band of the human race as idiots. I do have the evidence to back me up, at least. The X-Factor, Jeremy Kyle, Big Brother, every gossip magazine in the world, most of my sister's arguments...
     
  20. Pallas
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    Pallas Contributing Member Contributor

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    Oddly enough most people do appreciate the holding of doors in buildings, metro, and general acts of kindness, and I'm in NY...go figure. Most unpleasant situations I have encountered is always with the younger sect; no manners imo.
     
  21. CosmicHallux
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    I'm absolutely a feminist, and I even have issues about patriarchal authority and all that. But I like it when men hold doors open to me, and I always make an effort to thank them, because I think it's nice. I like to hold doors open for people too, men included.

    The only thing that could possibly irk me about that is if the men only hold doors open for women who they are trying to impress. I've seen young guys take seats of elderly people on buses and it drives me nuts--but I've seen young girls do it too.

    Once I saw this woman trying to get on the bus with a young baby in one arm and a stroller in the other hand. It was obvious from her responses that she didn't speak English well, and the bus driver kept yelling at her not to bring the stroller on the bus, and to fold it up.
    I was so pissed. I got up and helped her fold the stroller up and carry it onto the bus--I think it was the right thing to do regardless of gender. The bus driver was a woman too.

    There are feminist men too. IMO, most feminists simply believe that women are equal to men, that doesn't mean they hate men or dislike courtesy. I mean, I used to cook meals and bring them to this elderly man who lived alone and never learned how to cook much. He obviously appreciated having a young woman cook for him, but it doesn't mean I was submitting to some kind of patriarchal oppression or something.
     
  22. art
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    art Contributing Member Contributor

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    I hold doors for all sorts, and let folk in front of me if they have less shopping in the checkout queue, and wave a lot at other drivers to give thanks.

    All these things tend to make the world a better place, I fancy.

    Little deposits in the karmic bank too, allowing occasional massive withdrawals.
     
  23. Jessica_312
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    I would have slammed it in her face, too. What a rude person. Holding a door open has nothing to do with a person's sex - I hold doors open for men and women alike, and I consider it common courtesy for both to return the favor.

    People just love to complain about everything. It must be exhausting going through life always having to find something to complain about :rolleyes:

    As for feminism, I think there is a difference between a true feminist, and a woman who simply wants to spend her time hating men. Nothing at all wrong with feminism - being a woman myself, of course. But to go about it by just flat out hating men and refusing to let a man do anything for you? Silly and counter-productive, if you ask me. By hating all men and refusing to let them do anything for you, well then you're simply forcing men to treat women not equally, but differently than they treat others, which is completely opposite of the goal of feminism. Not to mention, let's face it - women and men are wired differently, and that's not discrimination, it's hormones/genetics, etc. For example, I have no shame in allowing my 6'3, burly brother to open a jar for me when I can't open it myself. I'm not going to even try to claim that I'm physically stronger than him and being a woman, unless I go hog wild with the steroids and live in a gym, I probably won't ever be physically stronger - just a fact of nature, and there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  24. Eunoia
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    Eunoia Contributing Member Contributor

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    I haven't encountered any bad experiences when holding doors and other common courtesy acts. I just open doors, regardless of gender/disability/age and such because I like being nice. I'm not exactly going to let a door slam in someone's face just because they're male or they look like a chav or something. The only thing that bugs me about it is when I go out of my way to hold a door open (like when the person is far away but I can see they're heading my way so I wait) and I don't even get a thanks or a smile.
     
  25. Quezacotl
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    Quezacotl Contributing Member

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    Holding doors is not so much a must where I live - it's common courtesy to check behind you before letting the door shut, especially if its an auto-locking door.

    Otherwise I understand why it irritates people when others go out of their way to hold doors. Generally makes me ask if they're just that desperate or socially inept.
     
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