Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 123456789
    Offline

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,351
    Likes Received:
    3,092

    How bad are the Republicans, really?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by 123456789, Feb 3, 2016.

    We spend a lot of time discussing the democrats, but probably not enough time seriously discussing the other side. We've had members here excuse specific democratic candidates by saying, more or less, "the GOP will stop at nothing to make the democratic candidates look bad," but could this same reason potentially apply the other way around? All liberals I know shudder/ almost vomit at the thought of a republican in office, and to be frank, the thought of Cruz scares me- he's going to cut education, research, destroy our environment, and worsen war. Trump seems to get an even worse reputation, though, frankly, I think a lot of what he's said has been exposed as a con job just to keep himself in the news- eg, he doesn't really mean it.

    I think it's important we consider the other side of things, especially because some Democratic candidates are using liberal fear of republicans to ensure that they get nominated. See Hillary's newest superpac ad below

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/267861-new-clinton-super-pac-ad-targets-cruz-trump

    So, how seriously do we take the Republicans? Hillary supporters don't think Bernie will be able to realize most of his ideas, and Bernie supporters think Hillary is more or less full of sh**. So, is it possible we should be applying that same skepticism to the promises made and accusations against the other side? Maybe having a republican in office, while undesirable, would not be the end of days?
     
  2. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    None of it will be the end of days. Kasich can be sane a lot of the time, but I still wouldn't vote for him. But the hysterical "the world will end if X wins" is bollocks.
     
  3. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    The Iraq war wasn't bad enough?
     
  4. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    First, there are plenty of decent Republicans and more than a few whack-job Democrats.

    The problem isn't Republicans, it's the extreme wing that has become their mainstream or at least equal to the mainstream. The Democratic Party whack-jobs remain on the fringe. The mainstream DNC doesn't promote the fringe causes while the RNC panders to the TEA Party and some religious extremists.
     
  5. 123456789
    Offline

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,351
    Likes Received:
    3,092
    The republican candidates in the limelight seem to be fairly extreme, but we haven't had a republican in office in the last eight years, and I wouldn't say that Bush before that was really anything that wild. So, I'm wondering how realistic it is for a liberal to be scared of someone like Trump or Cruz?

    Also, would you say that the other candidates, are less fringe? If so, are those the ones we should be considering when planning which democrat should get the nominee to face one of them?
     
  6. Lea`Brooks
    Offline

    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Messages:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    1,733
    Location:
    Virginia, United States
    To me, I'd rather vote for Clinton than almost any republican... And I really don't like Clinton. This is a good article outlining each persons position on the issues. It has each candidates face above what they believe, with the poll below being voters, not the candidates themselves.

    Just a few things that stand out to me:
    • Democrats want to tighten gun control laws (closing loopholes, making it harder for criminals or mentally ill people to get guns) and Republicans don't.
    • Democrats support action on climate change; Republicans think it isn't man-made.
    • Democrats want better health care; Republicans want to get rid of the ACA.
    • Democrats support abortion; Republicans don't unless it was a rape/incest.
    • Hillary Clinton supports the death penalty, which I didn't know until right now. Now I like her even less.
    There's no data on marriage equality, but I suspect a lot of Republicans are against it and the Democrats are for it.


    Just from an "issues" stand point, the Republican candidates stand for everything I disagree with. They would take us backwards, undoing of all the major progress out country has made. Not all Republicans think this way though. I actually didn't hate John McCain. Did I agree with him on everything? No. But if a Republican were going to be in office, I wouldn't have feared for our country if he were in that position. He supports gun regulation (for criminals and the mentally ill), civil unions (though not marriage), and wants to do more to protect our planet from global warming. I of course would prefer a Democrat. But I didn't mind McCain until Palin joined his team!

    So... Yeah. I think the Republicans we have to choose from now are just as bad as they appear to be -- if not worse. I truly believe our country will fall in shambles if a Republican wins office.
     
  7. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    He privatized a big chunk of the military and his cronies got the contracts. He misused his office to lie about the Iraq War for example, the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame affair. He fired the 8 attorneys general who would not cooperate with his scheme to interfere with elections. He replaced 150 career attorneys in the Dept of Justice with new graduates from the unaccredited Liberty University Regents Law School. He redefined torture, jailed people indefinitely without trials calling them enemy combatants instead of POWs.

    These are just a few of the extreme actions of GW Bush.

    They've been sliding down that slippery slope for quite a while. It didn't start this year.
     
  8. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    Well, it certainly won't be a good thing. But I often see people on the left and right making that prediction if the other side wins, and it just doesn't come to pass. It wouldn't be good if the GOP wins, and it could be a set back in various ways, but the I don't think the country will fall apart. In our two party system, it is inevitable at some point that the pendulum is going to swing from one side to the other.
     
  9. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    ... and despite the Iraq war, we are still here and the planet hasn't succumb to nuclear holocaust or been taken over by aliens.
     
  10. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    ... and Obama who is a Democrat extended the same Patriot act that everyone criticized Bush for. So what's your point?
     
  11. Link the Writer
    Offline

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,223
    Likes Received:
    4,228
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    You missed the part about the Syrian refugees being accepted into the US:
    Democrats: Let 'em come!

    Republicans:
    Two of them: Allow only Christian refugees
    The Rest: NONE MAY ENTER!!!

    Illegal immigration:
    Democrats want to make them all US citizens.
    Republicans are split between
    --> You may stay here legally.
    --> You won't be legalized into US citizenship, you may not stay here legally.
    Trump is flat out "DEPORT THEM ALL!!"

    So basically, @123456789 , while it wouldn't be the end of days if a Republican became the next US president, you can kind of see why some folks get a bit scared over that prospect.
     
  12. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I didn't mention the Patriot Act.
     
  13. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    ... BUT at the same time, what are the chances of any of that hubba bubba coming to fruition? Politicians say all they want all the time, and do none of it.
     
  14. ChickenFreak
    Offline

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,997
    Likes Received:
    5,506
    My perception is that there is a group of people working hard at making health care and education into unaffordable luxuries, and increasing poverty and race, class, and gender hatred as much as possible--because that gives the selected few more power.

    And they're all Republicans, though of course not all Republicans are them.

    I don't like Hilary one bit. And if she's nominated, I will vote for her.
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
  15. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    It's just another thing Bush is criticized for and yet a Democratic President followed suit with the same thing. It's all relative. So Bush led the U.S. into the Iraq war based on lies from false Iraqi intelligence, Obama kills indiscriminately with drone attacks, and was quoted bragging about how good he was at it. Half a handful in one hand, and half a handful in the other.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/4/obama-brag-new-book-im-really-good-killing-drones/

    Some say there is only one race, the human race. Well I say there is only one kind of politician, and that's a politician.

    Do we need to talk about Hillary and her time as Secretary of State and the use of drones?
     
  16. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
  17. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    None of those come close to the things I listed.
     
  18. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Let me also add to a quote for you @GingerCoffee straight from Hillary while she was first running for President. When asked about Al-Qaeda she said:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/05/02/part-two-hillary-clinton-talks-war-on-terror-water-boarding-and-illegal.html

    So you are criticizing Bush about Iraq, yet Hillary voted for the war in Iraq, AND she thought we should have been more aggressive in Afghanistan. She isn't that much different than the warmongering Bush.
     
  19. X Equestris
    Offline

    X Equestris Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    By this logic, we should never elect another Democrat again, because Kennedy and Johnson got us into Vietnam.
     
  20. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Oh, and when you talk about Bush being for torture, Hillary has tried to play both sides of the fence being the flip-flopper she is. Of course she said she was against torture and didn't think it worked despite the fact that evidence has pointed out that the U.S. government has gotten lots of key information from using Water-boarding. But here is a quote from her first presidential run:


    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/where-hillary-clinton-torture

    So no torture... well unless we really need it? WTF? Really?
     
  21. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    @Lewdog if you can't vote Bernie, go Green. You won't see those kinds of equivocations, nor a basic furtherance of Bush foreign policy, from them.
     
  22. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Well I hate to say it, because I'll get lambasted for it, but I'm on the team that believes the U.S. needs to show they are the big dog on the block at all times, otherwise we'll see our place in the world go down the shit hole, and life in our country will become as dangerous as it is in places like Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. I'd rather have a leader that isn't going to take crap, than to have to read every day in the newspaper or online about a car bombing, suicide blast, or other type of terrorist activity.

    I firmly believe you carry a big stick and when you do, you'll have to use it less often than if you don't.
     
    Raven484 likes this.
  23. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    Should the Green Party again nominate Jill Stein, I'll have you know I consider your refusal to support her prima facie evidence of sexism. If they nominate both Jill Stein and Cheri Honkala again, I'll consider your refusal evidence of twice the amount of sexism at work in opposing Stein alone.

    If Stein and Honkala run, and Hillary has a male running mate, then voting for Hillary would also be evidence of sexism on the basis of having foregone twice the number of X chromosomes and propping up a bad candidate to boot.
     
  24. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    What if Trump wins the Republican nomination and has Oprah Winfrey run as his VP? Then I should get double brownie points right?
     
  25. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,323
    Location:
    California, US
    I suppose you'd get points for the Winfrey support. As we know from what passes for reason among some Clinton supporters, the only explanation for a person's support, or lack thereof, when it comes to a female candidate is their biological sex. Since that's the only factor, then double points are not awarded. Unless you meant Ivanka Trump, but we'd have to wait a few years.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page