How do you handle profanity?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Montego Bay, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Absolutely. Certain professions, subcultures, etc. are going to curse a lot. Of course, one could have individuals within those groups who, for some reason that's a part of their character, never or rarely curse. Sometimes that can be used to great effect. Having a character who almost never curses use more profane words or go on a bit of a tirade can say something about the situation and their state of mind.
     
  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I handle them the way I handle any other part of someone's idiolect: Is this something the person would say? If the answer is yes, then, I write it.

    I work as an interpreter and I long ago gave up on trying to impress upon the world my personal take on language use. That mindset is in direct violation of the ethics of my profession. If the person for whom I am interpreting (Person A) has a professorial register, then a professorial register is what I use in the interpretation, even when I know full well that the person listening to the interpretation (Person B) isn't going to understand a damned word. It is not for me, as the interpreter, to change what was said. Person A may ask me directly if I believe that Person B has understood, and then yes, at that time I may politely suggest a drop in register, but it's never something I would do on my own because it quite literally is not my conversation. It is a conversation between Person A and Person B and I am only there to interpret. My mantra is: I am not here; I am invisible.

    Many interpreters end up finding that they have a great deal of difficulty performing the job in circumstances where register and word use hits a nerve, but the truth is, if you cannot interpret when a witness says "My fucking cunt of a wife cheated on me", with professionalism, without showing shock, or adding or taking away any emotive inflection, then you've no business doing the job, because you can bet your bippy that you'll one day have to say that and much, much worse in your time as an interpreter.

    This applies perfectly well, in my opinion, to the expression of characters in a story. It is for me to present them, as they are, dirty words and all, be that the case. If I ball-gag them, then I feel that I have violated the same code of ethics, but this time it's not a professional code, but instead a personal code between me and the characters.
     
  3. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    The characters should use the words the characters would use. Narration? Depends on the voice, obviously, but I don't think there's a problem with swearing, if it's effective.

    I write some YA, and it's been published with "shit" and "fuck" in it. If I had an editor try to take it out, I'd probably stet the changes.

    I had fun with a fantasy novel I wrote with a culture that was sex-positive and not at all religious - most of our common swear words would have made no sense to them, so I had to make up my own, based on things they would find insulting. "Dull, rust-stained sword!" - that sort of thing.
     
  4. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    If you think about it, @Wreybies, a writer is an interpreter of sorts - interpreting what has happened inside his/her head into language for the reader. You can't hamstring your story with a bunch of outside considerations.

    One of my early attempts at a novel would have posed a serious dilemma had I ever tried to get it traditionally published. It was about a young Catholic priest who is assigned to a poor parish composed mostly of illegal immigrants. The surrounding neighborhood, therefore is predominantly street people. I chose to portray the priest as true to his vows (despite being sorely tempted) and I also chose to portray the neighborhood accurately - complete with drug dealers, teen hookers, thugs, etc. And my dilemma was that showing the priest being true to his vows would make the story attractive to the so-called "Christian press", but the accurate portrayal of street people, including their profanity, would be unacceptable. On the other hand, that same portrayal of street people would make the story very attractive to other publishers, but the fact that the priest was loyal to his vows would be a deal-breaker.

    Fortunately, the novel was just a step in my learning process.
     
  5. Wild Knight

    Wild Knight Senior Member

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    It depends on the character I'm covering, really. I don't edit what they say if it feels natural for them to drop the f-bomb. Depending on the circumstances, the character states of mind may crack, and all hell would be unleashed from their mouths.

    Which gave me this weird mental image of black letters just projectile spewing from their mouths. :/
     
  6. RDD1977

    RDD1977 New Member

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    I swear a lot myself just naturally. I work in construction, and everyone curses like a sailor in the line of work. I don't put a lot of it in my writing though. One will be in there once in awhile when it is called for, but it depends on what I'm writing. Also it depends on what group your writing too. I'm writing for people like myself so when I see swearing in books I read it doesn't bother me. If your writing for young people then I would keep it out.

    I don't think there is any rules a person should follow, but you should write to what makes you comfortable. If you don't feel comfortable writing f-bombs in your story, and you would see it as a personal betrayal to your own morals. I don't see any reason why you should. I don't think it will effect the quality of your writing.
     
  7. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    I was struggling with this one myself. A few points to ponder:

    1) I was surprised to find that a lot of YA novels use language I would have thought would be censored and deemed adult only. Even sexual situations are allowed as long as they don't get too explicit.

    2) When I went back to college in my late 40s to do post-grad scriptwriting, a lot of the twenty-something students had the idea that if characters didn't curse every time they spoke, the dialogue wasn't realistic. I'm of the opinion that it depends on the character and what they think is appropriate in a given situation. Would a street-wise drug dealer swear in front of his mom? It depends.

    3) The language I use in everyday life isn't the same as the language I use when writing. I swear a lot around close friends, but I'd never swear in front of my mother. My father? A whole other story. The minister who lives down the hall from me? Never.

    When I'm telling a story using a first-person narrator, he's unlikely to swear that much in the narration, even if he swears in dialogue.

    But in a recent draft I sent out to a beta reader, the feedback I got was that it seemed to be aimed at a young audience... which wasn't my intention. I had to rethink the narrator's entire vocabulary as well as the situations he found himself in and his reactions to them, especially where those situations involved the girl he was interested in. I'm currently hip-deep in rewrites trying to aim this story at a more adult market... which actually feels more right anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  8. ddavidv

    ddavidv Senior Member

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    I've written books both ways. One only has 'bullshit' as a swear word (and its integral to the story, if you can believe it!). The other two (a series) are riddled with f-bombs because that is how my character talks. She comes from a very dismal background and this is the way people talk in that world. I know because I know people like that. To portray my character accurately she has to be foul-mouthed. This is actually addressed in each of my books by other characters who wince at her language and even tease her about it. I also give her creative permutations of swear words to inject a bit of humor.

    Since I am self-publishing I don't have to answer to anyone but my readers but I caution potential buyers that the book contains profanity, graphic sex and violence. This keeps the easily offended from buying and being disappointed (and leaving negative, whiny reviews) but also helps market to those who prefer 'gritty' work. Oddly, some of my highest praises have come from people who read it despite such objectionable content and, though repulsed by the sex and language, get what it is I'm trying to portray (that its not gratuitous but essential to character development).

    It is important to market to your intended market (especially if trying to go mainstream) but frankly I think telling the story truthfully trumps self-policing of troublesome content.
     
  9. SilentDreamer

    SilentDreamer Member

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    I've got one work that has hardly any curse words, if any - because of who it's audience is supposed to be - YA, but with a few mature themes.
    Yet, the current WIP - it wouldn't work without the MC and her curse words....it's just who she is.

    So, it depends on the characters using them, and the audience you have in mind.
     
  10. Annihilation

    Annihilation Active Member

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    It's necessary. Look at Negan in the walking dead.

    "Come over here and suck my dick.. Buahaha.. I'm just fuckin fuckin with you!"
     
  11. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Contributor

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    I've always enjoyed it when fantasy and sci-fi novels invent their own swear words. When done right, readers won't be offended, but it will also add to the world building.

    Examples:
    • Battlestar Gallactica: "Throw him out the airlock! He's a frakking Cyclon!"
    • Mistborn: "Rust and ruin!"
    • Pandora's Star: "Jesus wept!"
    You can also combine the two, and throw in real swear words when you want to make a real impact, and fictional swear words when you don't.
     
  12. R.P. Kraul

    R.P. Kraul Member

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    That's my thought as well, that we ought to be faithful to our characters. When writing character POV, when writing dialogue--I think we ought to be faithful to the character.
     
  13. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Profanity doesn't bother me. I use it in a casual way when I speak, though I do censor myself when it would be inappropriate. I don't have much profanity in my writing but I don't shy away from it where it's appropriate and suits the character. I know there are some readers (my mother is one) who will put down a book if it has "too much" profanity according to their arbitrary standards, but I'm more interested in being true to my characters than in trying to please every reader.

    On the other hand I do have a drug addict in an argument calling someone a C---, which I'm definitely going to edit to something much softer. In my friendship circles we use it casually but even I think that's too far for most target audiences!
     
  14. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Use profanity like fiery chilies. A little adds character, too much overpowers and the customer doesn't taste anything else, and it will only appeal to a very limited group of patrons. Also, especially if you yourself have a high tolerance, use less than what you think is "the appropriate amount". It takes less than you think to come across clearly.

    There's a horror movie, Cabin Fever, that overused variations of "fuck" so much that the dialogue was just plain hilarious; clearly NOT the intended effect. On the other hand, overuse of swearing has been used very successfully by author Janet Evanovich to create a hilarious charicature of a stoner ins a couple of her novels. And even there, she wrote with far fewer expletives than seemed to be present.

    Never forget that writing a literal representation of reality is less effective than producing a good illusion of reality, and this is especially true of dialogue.

    Season lightly with spicy dialogue for the best effect.
     
  15. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

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    I get to use special insults and swears since my characters worship Roman Gods. "By Juno's cunt", "It's as hot as Vulcan's dick", "Juno's cum", "cac", "by Jupiter's cock!" and "mingo!"
     
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  16. MichaelP

    MichaelP Banned

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    I once wrote a horror story about two brothers who play a prank on their brother by drugging and burying him alive, only to forget where in the cemetery they left him. In my futile attempt at "realism," profanity soaked the manuscript like greasy slop dripping through the bottom of a fast food bag, tainting every page and scene and sentence. It was rejected from every market I sent it to and rightly so.

    The lesson? If you want people to read your work, don't present it as a dripping bag of slop.
     
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  17. Feo Takahari

    Feo Takahari Senior Member

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    I once saw a minor antagonist introduced with the line "I'm gonna fuck you up, you fucking fucks!" It definitely set an impression of what kind of character he was, and within the context of that story, I'd say it worked.
     
  18. King Arthur

    King Arthur Banned

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    Wasn't that Negan?
     
  19. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Depends on the character. If s/he is someone who'd curse a lot they CURSE A LOT but if they are more modest or quiet or nicer then they don't.
     
  20. Lewis shepherd

    Lewis shepherd New Member

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    I like to use profanity sparingly, to much and it can just seem vulgar to little and it comes across as not natural, I like each of my characters to be as real as possible, sometime people swear it's nothing to be ashamed off, try and think of the most offensive sentence you can write and put it down, think of it like an exercise and its fun, I like to use the C word from time to Time because of the shock value attached to it.
     
  21. historymom

    historymom Member

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    Can I throw another angle into this discussion? I'm writing a historical fiction novel and am trying to capture the true essence of life on the American frontier and among laborers. I guarantee the men swore a lot, but I'm trying to steer clear of it (especially for my MCs) because it doesn't feel organic somehow. Believe me, I'm not afraid to use the well-placed "dammit" or "hell" to indicate coarseness. I'd love to find some historical superlatives or other forms of crudity if anybody has suggestions or resources.
     
  22. KhalieLa

    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    @historymom People have hurdled abuse at others in the form of words for excrement and genitalia ever since there were words for excrement and genitalia. Either we are not very creative as a species when it comes to profanity, or we have collectively decided to stick with what works.
     
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  23. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I haven't read this book lately, but I remember enjoying when it came out. You might want to add it to your library. - ETA, okay, for some reason, the link won't show up. The title is "Holy Sh*t: A History of Swearing".

    There are websites that can help, as well. You might want to check the list at http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?1865-Period-Swear-Words-by-Craig-Hadley, although I'd suggest running any words you choose through another source as well to ensure accuracy.

    But one thing to keep in mind is that you're probably trying to create the effect of capturing the true essence of life on the frontier... if that makes sense? For example, when the producers of Deadwood started shooting, they found that authentic Western swearing made modern audiences giggle - it sounded like dialogue from a kid's cartoon. So they modernized the cursing, creating (probably) a factual anachronism but an authentic effect. You might need to look for the old west swear words that are both authentic and that create the desired effect in your readers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
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  24. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    As somebody who has researched this issue pretty thoroughly for my own writing (as well as having read books written in and set in the period for most of my life), I can say that frontier swearing was mostly of the blasphemous sort ...sometimes pretty colourfully so. The scatalogical/sexual kind of swearing that's so popular today was not really done, apparently. Folks who swore a lot often prided themselves on being quite inventive with it. Back when swearing in books wasn't allowed, writers used to use the first letter of the forbidden word, followed by a blank: g—d d—m it kind of thing. I don't think you'll find too many f—g s—t or f—g c—t in earlier books, written in the period itself.

    As a child, growing up in the 1950s in the USA, I don't remember ever hearing anybody say 'fucking' at all. There were hells and dammits and the occasional shit, but never fucking or cunt. I was actually much older when those words started being used. I think they'd been out of use for many many years.

    One of the things (one of several things) that irritated me to the point of not being able to watch Deadwood past the first series was the inaccuracy of the swearing—which the makers of the series acknowledged. Fucking this fucking that cunt cunt cunt, etc. It was NOT authentic for the period at all. Might as well have dressed everybody in shell suits, pulled their pants down to below their butts, and turned 'em loose in front of the cameras. Would have saved a lot of money the producers spent getting so many of the visual details right.

    If you're going to be authentic, be authentic. If you want readers to 'relate' to swearing by giving it to them in modern form, then you're going to ruin the entire effect. I mean, why not make them relate to stilleto heels instead of buttoned up boots or flimsy slipper-shoes for formal wear, polyester shirts instead of homespun linen ones, get them to drive cars instead of ride in wagons, etc? It's just silly, isn't it? Either you strive for authenticity, and create the period so readers can get into it, or not. If not, well, where do you draw the line?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
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  25. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    I talk pretty casual with swears as well. But I don't think you should censor cunt. I've heard that one since I was fourteen, trust me, it's not that shocking, at least to the modern near-adult teenager.
     

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