A General sliding his battalions into position to take on the rabble horde. The maverick pulling a move that the rule stick to sticklers'd never see. But which is better? < ^ Just rhetoric—no need to answer; the ground has been w&t trodden in other threads. Keeping on track: an improvement I've found in my writing is the speed gain that comes from an increased vocabulary. One born from the consternation involved in getting a good fit for the right words into way too overthought and wrought sentences. I seem to remember things better by seeking answers to my own queries than having something pushed my way.
I think people on both sides of the fence are just convinced that their way is the best, and ignore the fact that we can all work best differently. Personally, when I used to try the other route, it was because I'd been deluded into thinking that pantsing/gardening was the more 'pure' and true way to write - going straight off inspiration and not muddying the waters with overthinking. But overthinking is my whole thing, as it turns out!
I´m definitely seat of your pants then, although on my current book I've had to make a few notes even though I have the beginning, middle and end already worked out in my head. I often think of how a good comedian comes up with a really good joke. Does he think of the punchline first?
I'm not sure there's a lot of that to be fair. It would be ridiculous to suggest your chosen method is better than any other. For each individual, their method is best, but only for them. I recently made some comment like 'Up the pansters!' in a thread, but it was only in jest.
I wrote my first attempt at a novel about 20 years ago, when a lot of other things were going on in my life and I had to squeeze writing into whatever open spaces I could find in my day (often, late into the evening). I started it out of impatience, mostly because two characters had popped into my head, and had absolutely no clue as to where it was all headed. The first draft was over 400K words, much of it unnecessary. I used unneeded and repetitive dialogue tags. I spoonfed the reader. Was overly descriptive, including material that neither drove the story, nor revealed something about a character, nor was necessary to orient the reader to time and place. Did a LOT of "filtering". At times, I inserted my own voice into the narrative. As one person who read part of it noted at the time, the writing was "very immature". So, yes, it's matured. "If you keep working, keep playing, you can get better; you should get better." - Willie Nelson
A few things I've learned spring to mind: - Introspection is not a bad thing. For whatever reason, I had a strong aversion to writing it when I started. Beta readers helped show me what was missing, and gradually I've got over my issue. My stories are clearer and stronger for it. - I no longer hold things back to create intrigue/mystery. I learned through beta reading that this rarely has the desired effect. Of course there is still a balance to be had, but IME most amateur writers (including myself) err too far on the 'let's be mysterious!' side. - I write far fewer -ing words and adverbs. - I learned that a deep/close POV works best for me, both as a writer and reader. Anything in omni has to be very, very special for me to enjoy it. My first book is more distant than I'd like, now that I've learned.
I learned what to include, what to leave out. My first book I didn't really have a good grasp of how to jump between scenes, summarize less important events, show the passage of time without actually showing it, etc. I've possibly gotten a bit too streamlined, but I can always add later if I need to.
Something else I've learned is that the reason my scenes felt so sparse and short-lived was because I wasn't including any internal thoughts or observations for my MC. It was all show show show and I never went inside their head.
My dialogue used to feel a bit awkward, because I was overly tedious with the detail in the tags. Same for any action, really, I went into so much detail for something trivial. If just opening a door takes four lines, it's taking too long. At least with the way I wrote it, haha.
Omniscient POV - the more distant form of 3rd person (usually 3rd person) in which the narrator is detached from the action, seeing everything but involved in nothing.
My grammar still needs improvement, for sure, but it's come a long way from what 14 year old me thought was good. I keep my old book that i wrote the beginning of a scrapped idea in from when i was that age to remind me of where i came from. I also feel as though my dialogue is getting better, but again, still needs work. this is where i'm grateful that editing exists, as i've just picked up and read what i'd written in that old notebook and cringed at how awful it was. would make a great YA book, but i'm not ready to fix that hot mess just yet
Yeah, it is ridiculous, but it's a sentiment I've seen around. Not here, so much (at least not lately; seems like there was a thread a while back), but I've seen some baffling debates over it.
Writing is so inherently subjective anyway. It's silly that anyone can think one method is all around better than any other. It goes deeper than planning versus pantsing, too. The majority of debates I see regarding approach, style, etc., are silly. Sometimes I think it's even damaging for some people to be on forums like these if they don't know how to filter all the "advice" they receive. I know I've had that problem, felt stuck in limbo via conflicting advice.
Agreed. I was on forums like this when I was a little baby writer, and I wonder how much of the confusion and self-doubt I've got over the whole process comes from general writing pointers and 'rules' being treated as edicts. It's tough for a newbie to be exposed to supposed absolutes like that and not know who to listen to. I feel like I repeat myself a lot (and might not be the most obviously helpful person), but in a ton of the question threads around here I end up just being like "Do what you want" or "Do what you think is best". It's better to learn from experience than try to memorize everyone's personal preferences and cast some sort of rule book from them. /off-topic?
Definitely off topic, and I won't further derail the thread. But I do want to say that it was a tough slog to learn how to filter all of the advice I was/am given. I agree with you 100% @izzybot.
I sincerely don't know if or how or how much my writing may or may not have improved. But (and it's the biggest 'but' I've yet encountered) my attitude has improved considerably... I used to refuse to redraft anything. Now I do the extra drafts, although I still don't like it much. I used to argue about making changes. Now I... Okay, I still argue a bit, but not as much and I don't storm off to sulk... very often. I used to spend absolutely no time in planning a story and then whine, complain, and throw tantrums when they didn't work. Now, I plan the shit out of everything... and whine, complain, and throw tantrums when they don't work. And finally, I used to get all swollen with pride when a first draft was finished. Now, I get all swollen with pride when... well, I guess that's one thing I'm so cautious about that I just don't do it any more.
While reading my way through the hundreds of books written about writing, I felt the same way. I only found my way through all that when i discovered two books that, when the story-building theories were combined, sparked within me my definitive approach to storytelling. I hope you've managed to do the same.
Good day to all I would like to ask for some advice. So I've been touching on writing for a while. I find that I have grown lots from when i started a decade ago, having a few stumbling blocks here before jumping onto the next level. Slow but nevertheless progressive. Nowadays, I find that my writing felt hollow, lacklustre, empty and I do not know why. I have read a lot of works (some good, some bad) and studied from them but I cannot make something that feels like them. Something feels wrong. Maybe because I've been covering fanfics a lot. Maybe I'm trying too hard. Maybe I'm trying to make my own original. Maybe its because I'm medically depressed. I hope you ladies and gents can help me on a limb. Where do I fit in the group of writers? Bad? Average? Hopeless? I've included some sample of materials for context below (Optional to read, latest sequence of works from top to bottom) Spoiler: List of works 1) Battlefleet - Based on the Battlefleet Gothic of Warhammer 40k, something simple I worked on while working on my original. 2) Colourwolf 2761 - A purely troll original story meant for friends with their names included and all the copyright infringement comics. 3) Epilogue - A story based on the Familiar of Zero series. All files in the link below https://www.mediafire.com/folder/2g8j9c4z8jzun/Writing I'm a bit torn between whether this should be in the art of critique or this section. If it is in the incorrect area, please do let me know. Hoping to have your opinions / experiences on it. Appreciate your help in advance. Regards John Crawfordz
It could be, as you said, because of depression, but (and I think this is far more likely) it might also be that you're ready to move away from fan fiction into your own realm of storytelling. I went through a period similar to this a few years ago and it's when I nailed down my preferred genre that I finally came out of it and ideas started to flow for me. Perhaps some soul-searching is called for, maybe not related to genre, but some other aspect of your creative process.
It doesn't really matter if someone says you are good or bad or average. All that matters is what an editor says. And then all that really matters is if the editor says he wants to publish your work. I didn't click on any of examples so I can't comment on your writing, but what does that really matter? If I said I hated it, would you quit writing? If I loved it, sure, you would probably feel goos temporarily, but it wouldn't really mean anything. I'm just not so sure asking strangers to tell you if you are good or not is really going to help you or even help you know where you stand. You list a lot of possibilities that could be contributing to the lack of quality in your work. I'm not into fan-fiction, so maybe take Sack-a-Doo's advice and try writing some original work. And try not to worry about how you compare to others. There were times when I felt like I was one of the best writers in a workshop class or at a writing job, and there were times that I was pretty sure I was the worst. But I was still there and got better. Is it important to know where you stand? I would say only if it will make you work harder. And you really don't need an outside opinion to do that. I don't like to read with a critical eye. I just like to read and enjoy it. And I don't compare myself to other writers if I can help it, but I get that sometimes that's hard. A good read leaves me inspired, not envious or doubting my own abilities.
I think I understand what you mean. That some of my skills have grown but are being held back by others, leaving a terrible mix of incompleteness. Cogs and square Parts that do not fit together. You are right about storytelling. I find the original realm scary for creating an original that people and myself would be able to enjoy is much more immensely difficult. Trying to publish it for real made it tougher on my expectations. I have switched from project to project, finding holes in my works that I find appalling that I rather scrap them than pursuing them further. I will try to follow your advice to find my answers. Hopefully I can share them soon. Thank you for your experience.
Honestly, I do not know if I would have quit writing if you told me it is bad. I had a bad experience with a beta reader once that I stopped for 6 months years ago. It broke up my writing will when I was still a 'kid' in writing. I suppose now I wanted a benchmark to know where I stand, to see the odds of making something that people can enjoy and not be a farce. To be at least decent and not horrible as a start. Worrying about my performance compared to others seems too ingrained to me. Its something I need to work on since its affecting my real life work as well. Heck, even trying to make this thread was giving me doubts of how I would be slammed for asking something I felt was rather idiotic and cryptic to it. Thanks for your encouragement. I don't know if knowing where i stand will make me work harder. I doubt that though. A good read especially for Brandon Sanderson's work does leave me inspired which then depresses me when I fail trying to create something that could contend with that level of works. My standards feel that I shouldn't write something simplistic like those light novels or novellas. Something not as complex as a 700 page book or an epic but something worth reading that would instill values / perspectives or understanding of the concepts. Am I trying to be too grand for a first book? In the meantime, I will continue trying to create an original and I hope to gather more advice & experiences from this forum to achieve that. Thank you for your experience.
By usually falling to my knees and praying to the Gods of Fiction, that thou will be blessed with something that is not entirely shit. Honestly trying the: get feedback and try to apply it method. Seems the only real way to assess if you are improving or not. So far my sacrifice of many pens has not gained me any favors with the Fiction God Zlorch, so I am gonna say about a 2.