Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by NICKP2009, May 27, 2009.
How much importance do you place on having at least a bachelors degree?? Why??
Because you're probably not going to get a well paying job without one. A lot of employers won't hire anyone who doesn't have at least a Bachelors for a wide range of jobs. Even those that do, someone with a college degree can often be seen competing against you, and they'll win. The key to getting a good job is to have as much going for you as possible. In the long run, getting a four year degree more than pays for itself.
I agree. I wouldn't necessarily limit that to a Bachelor's degree, but I think some sort of certification from a school, whether it be a Bachelor's degree, a pilot's licence, etc is very important. I've seen people who don't have degrees get passed over for jobs that they are far more qualified for than the people who were hired purely because they don't have a diploma of some kind. I would much rather have spent four years of my life working toward a degree than spend the rest of my life fighting for positions I have the necessary skills for because I decided not to.
I am an office manager for a construction company and I have a trainee working under me. She is actually more qualified (and older) than I am. I know it doesn't happen often, but if I owned a business, I would hire on skill, not on qualifications. As it is, if I get looked over for a job based solely on qualifications, then I don't want to work for that employer anyway.
My point is that you shouldn't base a job position on qualifications alone. I have friends attending university so they can be primary school teachers. Primary school teachers are the ones that taught me basic spelling concepts and all the grammar that I know today. A few of these friends of mine have questionable spelling and grammar skills. A tertiary degree only means something if you have the skill and knowledge to back it up.
It is super important. Think Highschool diploma fifty years ago. If you want to do more than work AT a starbucks, get a degree. With that degree you can MANAGE the starbucks.
Mama said, Eoz, companies prefer people with degrees, over those with TAFE qualifications or no qualifications.
Mama always rightz.
They shouldn't, but they do. What proof do they have of your skill if you have nothing to back up your claims but mere claims? It's a sad fact of the world that the guy who gets ahead isn't always the best guy for the job; just the guy with the nicest wrapping paper.
That aside, education is still vital. Many jobs require skills you're not going to learn outside of college simply because there's no other environment to learn them in. Even if you can learn a lot about a subject, you'll never learn to apply some skills because you won't have access to necessary equipment, which again, colleges have. The degree matters, but what you learn matters too, and some things are best learned at a college and getting an proper education.
Whole books by covers thing. This is 110% TRUE.
Sure is. I'm trying to get a summer job now, and do you know how hard it is? Hella hard. I've seen people twice my age and twice my experience beating me at every turn, and when it's not them, its someone who's already graduated college.
Trust me people. It might suck, but the world turns one direction and it ain't changing. Get the prettiest darn book cover you can find XD.
Heck, there are places like Starbucks who won't hire employees full time unless that person has a high school diploma. It's not that they care about what they learned in high school or wht grades they got. They care because it shows commitment and the willingness to complete something.
In France you have the option to leave school at 16...but it's taken for granted that if you do, your career options narrow down to working at McDonald's. Without a 'bac' you've sort of mucked up.
Here we can leave school at sixteen too, but people only seem to do that if they're joining the Armed Forces. Now it seems mandatory to go to uni, more people do because they feel it is the only choice, but this has resulted in more people changing courses or dropping out. A friend of my parents got 6 'O levels' in the 70's, left at 16 and now he runs a bit company...that isn't really possible any more, you have to have a degree or equivalent qualification
A college degree is very expensive. Not everyone needs one.
I find it sickly amusing that colleges push a logical fallacy to convince people that they need to attend college. They point out that college graduates earn over XXX dollars more over their lifetime earnings than non-college graduates, implying that once you get your degree, you can expect you income to rise correspondingly. But the truth of the matter is that particular high paying professions either require or favor college graduates.
If your target career is one of these professions, you should probably pursue the degree.
I entered a couple of those professions without a degree. I had a couple years of chemistry at a prestigious college, but left school. I then found a job as a Laboratory Technician Trainee in a research company, and within two years I was a Staff Scientist. After a couple more years, I joined onto a new project there, programming a microprocessor based flatbead recorder (a smart lab instrument), and began a new career as a Software Engineer. I've been a Software Engineer for three decades.
I finally completed my Bachelor's Degree about a year ago, and it does open doors for my resume. But my experience counts for far more, and my salaries have been commensurate with those of degreed colleagues - and have been for many years.
But it is also true that companies value a degree as evidence you can stick it through and complete something major.
Then there is the other question of the thread: How important is an education?
I am primarily self-educated. I am continually reading, and applying what I read. My book cases are laden to the breaking point with textbooks in many different fields of study, and I keep getting more. Learning is central to my life, even to my daily routine, and it has been a core component of my career successes.
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Bull. The knowledge is not the danger, it's the lack of knowledge which represents the danger. No matter how much you know, always stay aware of how much more you do not know. Ignorance is the greatest danger.
Never let school get in the way of your education.
Agreed. I think that schools need to focus more on teaching students how to learn, rather than just having them memorize (often theoretical) information. Logic and "big picture" thinking needs to make a major comeback as well.
Tell me about it!
it feels like we learn a lot of useless information, just for the sake of it, at my school...but that's the syllabus..damn Government
I quit out of college before earning an AA degree, though I ended up taking more credits than I needed to earn the degree, I didn't take the last stupid class, Seminar in Educational Inquiry. It was basically a re-cap class of English! Write a research paper, read a bunch of poetry...that pretty much was the class. I had no desire to do that class. I was tired of writing pointless research papers, just being graded on the topic (which if the teacher doesn't agree with you topic frequently they will give you a lower grade for nit-picky things) and the basic construction of the piece.
I'm sorry, but I have learned more outside of college than I did in college. The pointless homework -- or as I called it, busywork -- obnoxious know it all teachers, and ridiculous "group work" where no matter who I had in my group, nothing got done unless I did it...it was all just pointless to me.
I could see if I had decided to go into psychology, like my first plan was, needing the schooling and training, but to be a writer...no I didn't need it. I just needed the basics of English. From there it is all hard work and practice done on my own.
If I were going into something specialized, like being a Vet, or a Doctor, yes, training and college are needed. To be a manager at Starbucks, however, all you need is time spent working your way up at the store. Most retail, if you are smart and work hard, will promote you based on your experience or time at the company. Many large chains prefer to hire management internally from their employee base.
To start you own business, you need a business idea, researching how to write a business plan, some idea about economics, and capitol to invest into it. You don't need a degree, though it will make getting a loan easier.
To work in a trade, like plumbing, electrical, or carpentry, there is usually on the job training.
To work with computers, you usually need college. But, most college classes are obsolete within two years, at the rate technology is advancing.
You could have someone who had done their own studying of a subject, and you could have someone who partied their way through college (barely earning a degree)...which would you want to hire? The one who looks good on paper, or the one who had the motivation to be self taught? I personally think motivation is worth more than a piece of paper.
Do you need a degree? No. A degree says nothing but you memorized some stuff, quite a bit you dont actually apply in your work. Just like the name of a school --an Ivy League says nothing but that you worked hard in high school. I have an okay GPA, but I'm secretly happy that I dont have a 4.0+ number next to my name. I see no pride in being able to excel in doing what people tell me to do.
In my opinion, primary and high school only teaches you how to socialize and interact with those around you; no one is ever going to ask you to use Gaussian substitution to solve matrices without a graphing calculator --they're just not.
However... I place an incredible amount of worth in learning. The only thing that separates a human from a dog (sort of) is that we have the intelect necessary to dominate and domesticate the dog. Why wouldnt you want to improve? I suppose some of this comes from the fact that up until my father himeslf, the patriarchal side of the family never pursued anything above partial high school and my mother's side has been pursuing higher level learning degrees since colleges were up and running.
I want to go to college. I want to go to a very good college. I do care about graduating with at least two degrees because I am a material girl, but I dont think that a bachelor's, master's, or doctorate equates to how smart you are.
One of my favourite quotes.
The most intelligent person I ever met was invited to Stanford, Yale, Harvard, MIT at age fifteen... turned every single one of them down. He never went to primary or high school; he was technically homeschooled, but anyone who knows him knows that he never had anyone teach him.
An education is very valuable to me, but that doesnt mean you have to pursue it the traditional way.
I always thought what separated us from dogs was our ability to problem solve. Stick a dog on a pole and twist the rope short around the pole, then place a bowl just outside the dog's reach. The dog would never purposefully untwist it's rope to get to the food, they would just keep trying to pull their way off the line.
I think problem solving skills are one of our most valuable abilities. The problem is, not everyone uses this ability to even half of what they are capable of. Logical reasoning and sequential problem solving are the two most important skills the current public education system is lacking.
I have two kids. One in 2nd grade, and one in 4th. Some of the stuff they have the kids doing for homework is A) just extra busy work, and B) memorization.
Memorizing things is fine, though I don't think it should necessarily be the main point of school.
I remember back to 5th grade history. It was ancient history that year, and I found myself thinking, why should I memorize all the religious systems, political systems, and cultures from ancient times. When am I ever going to need to use this, where looking it up to find out couldn't be done?
Algebra, when am I going to use it without a calculator? Better yet, when do I even do multiplication or division without one? Not that often, though I can do it if I need to. As it was, I had to look up how to do long division when my daughter started doing it this year.
Oh, and on that thought thread: What is up with these "new" techniques for figuring out math problems? They seem ten times more complicated than the formerly taught ways, but I guess the education system has to have some proof they deserve more money. Ugh, that is a whole other subject...the American education system and unions. I better not think about it or I'll get mad.
There is something to be said about being able to creatively problem solve. A person can be book smart, able to memorize and recall facts a-plenty, but they can be dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to problem solving the issues in life.
You can have someone who is great at problem solving, but might not be so hot with recalling dates and places from text books. These people tend to still enjoy learning about a wide range of things, but aren't a walking encyclopedia.
It may be different in England but I doubt it. I left school without any qualifications, not because i couldnt acheive them (well thats debatable maybe) but I needed to leave. I hated it.
I worked my socks off for years starting at the bottom of my career and eventually starting my own business which I have had now for 9 years.
All of my education apart from reading, writing, maths etc has been learnt by myself. I have learnt the things I wanted to learn, that I had a real interest in, therefore I learned well.
Education is important to a point and as someone else said you may need an actual degree to get into the profession you want i.e. doctor etc, but would I hire someone just because they have a degree? Absolutley not. As far as im concerened its all about enthusiasim, drive and attitude. These things cannot be learned.
Anyway I like to champion the underdog
See, this is what I love about the Ontario college system. In a lot of ways, they are a cross between university and those dumb career colleges that brag about only taking eight months to get the best career ever. They're targeted to career paths, and nearly all of them have field placements if it's possible to get them. Hundreds of people, after getting a BA or whatever, go to college for a targetted career path.
When it comes to education, I knew I didn't have to go to university. It wasn't the right thing for me and you don't need formal education to be a writer. As one writer said, when he was deciding not to take English, "I can read those books anyway." And I do. I learn what I can't learn by reading from groups like this. The reality is that many employers want to hire people with a certain level of education. We can't forget that.
But it doesn't mean we should just go to university because that's what you're supposed to do to get a good job. The better thing to do is figure out what you want to do and then what educational path you need, if any beyond a high school diploma. If you're unsure, before you apply/decide not to, look at what that level of education can get you. I know a guy who ended up being very happy being a supervisor at Burger King, and others who are happy working as floor support in call centres.
I value the education I received even if it isn't doing a whole lot for me career-wise. I do believe that if two prospective employees have the same skill set and experience in the field...and one has a degree and one does not that the edge would go to the one who has the degree. My sister works in HR and says that a lot of employers, whether the degree really matters to the job or not, will discount application and resumes from people with no degree. This is not to say that everyone needs one. My husband doesn't have one...of course he has been without work for quite some time...so maybe bad example...lol.
The problem I have with college (at least where I live) is that there isn't a lot of focus on what to do after you graduate. I got out with a degree in British Literature going, "Now what?"
I have attended several colleges, and none of them emphasised memorization. The emphasis has always been on being able to locate the necessary information to solve a problem, putting that information together in a meaningful way, and presenting it in an organized manner that other people can use.
Maybe I've just been lucky in my choice of schools, but I wouldn't put much stock in a college or university that only teaches a deluge of facts.
That was another thing I liked about my college experience. The teachers made perfectly clear that understanding was more important that remembering. Then again, there are certain fields where you need to memorize things. My residence was 50% paramedic students before people started to drop out. As a paramedic, there is no time to look up things while you're with with someone needing urgent medical help. Of you forget the proper dosage of medication, you could kill someone.
I believe education to be extremely important if you are wanting to do something outside of a trade or be a manager at Burger King. I am finishing my undergrad and then applying for law school. For a profession like that...I feel college is very necessary. I've heard of lawyers who didn't go to school...but would you really want one of those? Probably not in most cases. The education system def needs to be revamped...but learning is a great thing.
I thinnk education is important in todays society as if you don't get good grades in school, you cant get good GCSE's, and if you dont get good GCSE's you cant get good A and AS levels and if you dont get them you cant get into university which means your less likely to get a well paid job.
To me, it depends on what career you want for your life.
For instance, someone who wants to go into an academic job, say, accoutning, or I.T. would need qualifications in this day and age.
However, for someone who wanted to go into a more practical subject, say, acting, the academics are less important than the actual ability to do the job. There are many actors who have absolutely no qualifications, yet are brilliant at their jobs. On the flip side though, qualifications in acting could help advance your career especially as some talent agencies now scout out colleges and universties in England for new talent. It rests on how confident you are really. If you think you're good enough to seek out your own agent or if you're waiting for them to seek you, if you catch my drift.
My two cents.
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