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  1. TheLeonard112
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    TheLeonard112 Sūpākūru Senpai

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    Humans And The Act of Animal Slavery

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by TheLeonard112, Jun 9, 2014.

    This is something that we have all heard before many times before, right? Humans are so cruel to animals, we treat them like garbage. We separate them from their families. I feel like many humans ignore this fact. We overlook it so we don't have to worry about feeling guilty. But I was watching this movie, Blackfish, recently which refreshed my memory of how horrid human actions towards the creatures we share the planet with can be. Blackfish is about a killer whale named Tilikum who had been separated from his family at a young age. The documentary highlights how he was driven to the brink of insanity and or how his living standards constantly frustrated him. With his constant different behavior, Sea World didn't flinch to constantly put human lives in danger to keep milking money from him. The movie explains how complex orcas are in their mind, and how what we do to them is nothing less than torture. I really suggest the movie to anyone who wants to watch something informative, thrilling, and really good thinker.



    So what are your views on how we treat the animals in our society? Any animal you wanna highlight in specific? And what is your solution to the problems that we are having?
     
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  2. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I think a good deal of these cases can be explained by our addiction to money. We're always trying to maximize profits, which is why we stuff chickens in small cages, keep animals in small enclosures at zoos, etc. It's especially bad in third world countries. I know a few people from India, and they all told me that if I ever go there, I should ignore snake charmers and those people who use monkeys that do tricks because those animals are treated very poorly. I can only imagine what some of their zoos much be like.

    There's also pet abuse, which I think happens either because the owner is careless/lazy/ignorant or because he's taking out his anger and frustration on his pet(s) because it gives him a feeling of power and control. Either way, it's horrible to even think about, especially because I've had cats pretty much my whole life.

    As for solutions, I think it's easier to find a solution to what I described in the second paragraph (though I'm not sure what that solution would be). It's a lot harder to solve the economic problem because there are so many factors that have to be considered. Sadly, I think it's simply human nature to take advantage of whatever we can, and that includes other species on the planet.
     
  3. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    simply that humans are the most barbaric, inhumane [which i realize is an oxymoron, or paradox, or something!] creatures on the planet... the only species that tortures and kills for pleasure, sport, and greed...

    especially 'food' animals... see my pieces on the subject:
    http://www.saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=17
    http://www.saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=50
    http://www.saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=79

    also, the concept of making our fellow animals into 'pets':
    http://www.saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=220
    http://www.saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=132

    i believe in no religion and no gods, but this line is the solution:

    "Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you."

    and 'others' includes all living creatures...

    Pet Lovers

    What good are wings when you're kept in a cage?
    When a canary sings, is it venting its rage,
    or lamenting its fate determined by man,
    never able to do what it knows it can...
    fly?

    What good are fins when you're kept in a bowl?
    When a goldfish swims in a circle, no goal
    to reach, no places to go, spaces so tight,
    do you think if it could, it might...
    cry?

    What good is a mind, when it's kept in a box?
    When sentient man's heart is so festooned with locks,
    and limits we've placed on our natural flair
    to know what's right and wrong, we don't care.
    Why?

    What good are voices that trill and fill hearts
    with the happiest feelings music imparts,
    when we won't hear the longings
    such heartbroken song flings
    high?

    What good is the beauty of rainbow-hued scales,
    on bodies whose level of loveliness pales
    when we won't set them free
    as they must have been meant to be...
    shy?

    What good are we, who prize liberty,
    while enslaving those in enforced custody,
    when we know we've no right
    banning freedom to fly the night
    sky?

    why do we praise them,
    then raise them to be
    unhappy things we never set free,
    though designed to soar,
    through air or sea...
    why do we?

    If I had my wish, all who keep birds and fish,
    would be put into cages, kept on glass-walled stages,
    where those they'd tormented, won't be prevented
    from seeing human beings follow their own golden rule.
    So, 'Do unto others'? Be so cruel to your brothers?
    Who's the dumb beast? Who's the fool?
     
  4. Thefloatingquill
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    Thefloatingquill New Member

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    We mostly treat them with arrogant behavior. With pride. Let me explain my point of view : before we humanity was even a concept, we were animals. We survived and struggled like all of the others to preserve our existence against time, nature and other hostile species. Pride was, and is still is our first instinct. The notion of a self, and a fervent desir to preserve it, even expand in a way with offsprings. Basic life dynamic. But around us there is nature, dangerous thow we were shaped by it, and the other animals, those entities that all shared a thing in common : The notion of a self, and a fervent desir to preserve it, even expand in a way with offsprings. To live, we need food. What can we eat ? We desire. Plants. But not all of them. There is a limit of quantities. Things we can't digest. Things that are poisonous. And there are others that are hungry to. Rivals. Somtimes there are of the same species than us. We fear. But, we can eat the rivals. There is a risk that they might try and eat us anyway, we can't take a chance. We hate. Herbivors are often more easy to hunt, the perfect prays. We exploit. In one word, survival. Some are more fit then other to accomplish their goal of living and reproducing, and they thrive. One of them is more fit than others. Us. The Human kind. Why ? Because we learned to shape the world around us to a epic extent, with our hands and our minds through the power of technology. We evolved like the others, and like the others we were shaped by environnement, but unlike the others we also started shaping the said environnement. The result was a much less hostile world for us ; and we thrived. A lot. We ceased to survive, and we started to live. And with that came a bit of free time where we could think of something else than survival. We started to think about beauty, comfort, sensuality, sounds and then music, we started asking ourselves questions about everything, exploring new aspects of life. We started to love (and hate) each other in a new ways, carring more and more about each other. Humanity springs from there. Civilization too. But pride is still there, and nature is still wild and mysterious. So is man. We remained savage and violent, but we also desired comfort and peace. And from time to time, some of us actualy realized that to achieve the later, savegerie and violence wouldn't do. That those things were necessery tools in the past, not as practical now as they were when we were animals. Peace and caring became relevent. Because harmony is just so much more beneficial. But to live in harmony, you need to put down your pride by a degree, maybe even let it go. We have, what, thousands if not millions of years of existence in a violent world ? Savegerie is a old habit. So is the pride that we try to protect with savegerie.

    Why am I talking about pride all the time ? Because we mostly consider ourselves more valuable than other species. Glory, civilization, phallic symbols and all. We mostly believe that they are here for us to exploit. We only think about ourselves, waisting the awesome gift that we have to understand things in a much more subtle fashion ; that a our pride is nothing without the pride of others, without nature to feed it. The lesson here is profound notion of respect for life, whatever it's form. Today, a lot of us have the opportunity to fufill one of our basic need without killing anything (I won't delve into the "but you eat plants, they are alive are they not ?" because I am already a bit off topic), without being a source of harm. But meat is a old habit. The whole idea of harmony is still quit young however. So, more often than not we believe that it's not such a terrible thing. That unecessary and obsolete exploitation of sensible beings is okay because they are weaker than us. Thus the animal is a commodity... We deny their pride with ours. We eat them. We get rid of them when they become obsolete. We raise some of them, and from the moment they are born, they purpose is not surviving, but dying, for us.

    I disagree ; pigs lie to each other, cats play with their pray... I could go one and one. Humans are just much more efficient than other species at torturing and killing ; but they also are more efficient than other species at caring and preserving.

    A good dose of humility and love should do wonders... The only thing we can do is to live with those principles and share them with those who are willing to listen.
     
  5. Oswiecenie
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    Oswiecenie Active Member

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    Animals are treated like shit in every possible way. Even if they weren't caged and exploited for some silly purposes, the fact alone that we slaughter animals to eat them is an abomination and that most people see nothing wrong with it shows how morally depraved the larger part of mankind is.
     
  6. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    Yeah, those morally depraved lions need to be shown how horrible they are. :confused:
     
  7. Okon
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    Okon Contributing Member Contributor

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    We are omnivores--no denying it. Now that the privileged of us don't need to eat meat anymore for survival, the question of 'should' comes up a lot. I don't eat meat, but it's not a moral thing (that's a headache to consider all the implications).

    Speaking generally here, it's been considered for a long time that animals are a resource like fruit/veggies, and that their benefits were provided by god for us to use. They didn't have feelings or thoughts etc... So it's fine to put them in a cage for entertainment, or flay them alive for their fur.

    Advancements in biology have shown that all mammals are pretty similar, other categories as well. Okay, some reptiles are psychotic, and you know what they say about goldfish and memory, but we're all creatures trying to survive and bear youth. This is were squiggly lines are being drawn based on personal preference; one 'vegetarian' girl told me that since fish abandon their children, it's okay to eat them. I didn't want to get in an argument with her (especially because she's gorgeous, I mean, like, woah:eek:), though if I did, I would've asked her if she'd eaten any people who gave their children up for adoption.

    I don't have any major points to add, because I really don't have any conclusions. Though I do wish people would be more honest with themselves. If you can't walk through a slaughterhouse without feeling guilty or shocked, why would you still eat meat? How come it's wrong to eat horses and dogs in some cultures? They're animals, just like livestock. When they're past their usefulness, it's only logical to make use of their matter.

    I feel like if I make any choices about the morality of it all that I'll be stuck in the chosen rut with a closed mind for the rest of my life; that's a good way to go nowhere with your mind.
     
  8. MainerMikeBrown
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    MainerMikeBrown Contributing Member

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    I think animals should have the same rights as people do, which is why I'm reluctant to ever purchase another pet in the future.

    The idea of having a pet that I would "own" makes me feel a little sad because animals shouldn't be owned by people. Animals are better than that.
     
  9. Okon
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    Okon Contributing Member Contributor

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    The right to free speech? See, that's where it gets complicated...

    Peoples' rights get taken away when they start acting like animals, anyway. It might be better to say that animals should have more rights, not the same rights.
     
  10. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Don't forget the right to vote. We need to see more animals represented in congress.
     
  11. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    My dogs love me. They are excited and jump all over me when I come home even if I've only been gone a short time. If I leave the room for more than a few minutes they come looking for me.
     
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  12. Ben414
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    Ben414 Contributing Member Contributor

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    If you grant that they are being treated well, the only problem I can see is with free choice. In humans, this problem is quite evident as one can understand what his choices are, make a rational choice based on his alternatives, and communicate what he wants to do. Most (All?) animals can't choose between "the wild" and a home, and if they can't, then I don't see any problem with providing animals a nurturing home.
     
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  13. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    I had a spider that I kept as a pet through the winter months, feeding it crickets from my local pet store. My children loved it. I found out later that this particular spider dies with the first frost, so I thought it was cool that she got to live so much longer than she would have otherwise.
     
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  14. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    I never go to aquariums or zoos, except those that successfully mimic real habitats and are rescuing orphaned animals and conducting breeding programmes. I am horrified by Sea World. I'm happy to interact with dolphins and whales in the wild, if I get a chance, even if one's been rescued and brought up by humans in an animal sanctuary, but Sea World is exploitative and horrible. I grew up in a country where gypsies used to trap bears, chain them, abuse them and force them to dance for money, and I cried my heart out every time I saw it, even when everyone was claiming the bear was perfectly ok (it wasn't).

    I am also deeply against animal testing unless absolutely necessary (minority of tests these days need living beings, tissue cultures and computer simulations could mostly take over). I eat meat very sparingly, only free range and organic, and was a vegetarian for a long time but for health reasons I had to stop (I take medication that is rendered useless by too much vitamin K, so I can only eat modest amounts of green leafy veg)
     
  15. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    Perhaps one day we will be able to know definitively that animals have conscious awareness of suffering. I strongly believe in a type of tribal mentality held around the world of a respect for nature in all its forms and not to pervert or exploit it. If you have a love and respect for an animal, then having to kill it for food becomes a display of respect and honor and thankfulness that runs contrary to the mass-production in meat factories. Just the term factory in regards to harvesting an animal seems wrong, but I also understand the vital role that animal products play in our global survival.

    In the end we must do all that we can to be respectful and honorable to all God's creatures, always with an understanding that they are dying so that we might live.
     
  16. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure we do know that definitively.
     
  17. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    We know that animals feel pain, but whether they have a cognitive awareness of pain is not definitively known, we can only theorize based on behavior. The best we have right now is an argument from analogy, which is far from definitive.

    Regardless, simply feeling pain is a good enough reason to treat animals with respect and kindness.
     
  18. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    No, the best we have are very reliable observations in controlled experiments.

    First off, unless you are an evolution denier, our sense of empathy didn't just jump into existence with the last homo sapien gene jump.

    Selfless Chimps Shed Light on Evolution of Altruism
    In another study primates opened the cage of another they'd not met before to let the other share in the food.

    If an animal has empathy they are capable of being cognitively aware of suffering.
     
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  19. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    It appears we have different definitions for the term 'definitive'. Even 'very reliable observations' are not definitive when it comes to animal consciousness.

    Regarding pain research, it primarily distinguishes between a conscious awareness of pain and an unconscious processing of impulses through a process called 'nociception'. This process can also lead to complex hormonal reactions, behavioural responses as well as to learning avoidance reactions.

    However, there is currently no way, definitively, to conclude that we can know of an animals mental state or if their awareness of pain is analogous to our own.

    We may just have to agree to disagree, however and there's nothing wrong with that. :)
     
  20. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    So you don't agree empathy has been documented in non-human animals or you don't agree empathy is the basis for cognitive awareness of pain?

    You agree animals feel pain but you don't agree they have conscious thought?

    Could you clarify your position a bit more? I'm confused about it.
     
  21. J.P.Clyde
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    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

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    This is all I have to say on the subject:

    "There is no honour in beating the weak"

    Whether it be at Sea World or a factory farm, if another species is caged, if another species cannot turn around in this cage, if another species cannot move, or is in its natural environment. Then there is no honour in hitting them, beating them, or tormenting them.

    There is another movie OP you should check out, it's called Speciesism. [terrible at spelling that word]

    It discuss the very issues of this thread. Though I will leave it at that because I tend to get itchy on this subject.
     
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  22. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    I'm not sure how I can clarify my position any more than I have already explained it.

    However, it isn't important and I'm sure others would like to weigh in on the topic of our animal friends. :)
     
  23. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You could at least answer the questions I asked you.

    Do you believe empathy has been documented in non-human animals?
    Do you agree empathy is the basis for cognitive awareness of another's pain?
    Do you agree animals feel pain but you don't agree they have conscious thought?
    Your position is unclear.
     
  24. Killian Jones
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    Killian Jones Banned

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    I believe that deducing analogous mental states in animals using behavior can never be definitive for the reasons I have already laid out.
     
  25. J.P.Clyde
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    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

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    I should also mention I hate the term, "animal"

    Because humans are animals, cows, chickens, dogs, orca whales, etc are other species.

    Because we are animals, we are Enslaving Other Species.
     
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