@Oscar Leigh I just re-read, I don't think you were referring to your liking of critiques, but the above still applies. I like writers that like ALL feedback on their workshop threads, and as far as I am concerned, you practise the art of like appreciation there. I pay attention to such things, and I admit, I'm less inclined to critique those that are not so generous, unless I especially like them and they have been helpful in other ways.
I was referring to that. That I liked everything on my threads because I like the feedback, even if I don't agree, it's nice to hear different opinions and I've never heard anything that was just stupid.
That is a point I agree with, and feel needs a bit of emphasis as well. Sometimes it's tempting, if you get feedback that is helpful, to start wanting that critique-giver to stick with the process, to read and re-read every new version, etc. Not only does that put pressure on the critique-giver (who may or may not want to keep going over the same thing) but it deprives you of getting that vital 'second opinion.' If you make changes that somebody has suggested, the thing to do is NOT go back to them for approval. Instead, try the new and improved piece on somebody else. If the new readers don't see the original problem, then you've fixed it! Unless somebody offers to read all versions of your piece, assume they're not keen to become a mentor. But even if they do offer, it's best to move on, to get more feedback from new people as well. That's the only way you'll discover if your problems are actually fixed.
I strongly agree with what Jannert's comments. Often if I comment, it's in the passing. My mind moves on quickly. I'm on this forum to play and not to find more work. After all, I was procrastinating from real paid work to begin with. I do get stressed out when people ask for follow up or tag me into things that isn't just 'play'. I prefer the attitude that people are appreciative for a single minute spent on their work by strangers. Good, bad or downright offensive, they spent the time to type you something; be grateful is my attitude. You could have been ignored and if you can't hack it, don't put stuff up. No one owes you anything. (Arrrrgh! Don't stone me!) But really, my mind isn't that dedicated, it is NOT my WIP. I struggle to spend anytime with my WIP... It's crazy to me that I would re-read other people's work when I struggle to type one sentence of my own stuff... And definitely yes, someone else can hopefully come along and offer a different opinion.
Just to be clear, I never expected anyone to give any number of reviews or discussion unless they wanted to.
Yes, that's the selfish bit coming in here. We all want to work on our own WIPs, don't we? I certainly find that if I get caught up in trying to work on somebody else's writing or story problem, I can't concentrate on my own—at least temporarily. There are a few people whom I'm delighted to work in depth with, but that's because their stories are the kinds of stories I would read myself, and we are kindred spirits as far as writing goes. Usually these people write historically-based novels, which is my 'genre' preference. There are a couple of others whose stories outwith that genre have struck me so forcefully that I also don't mind dropping my own in order to engage with theirs for more than an exchange or two. That doesn't mean other people's stories aren't interesting, engaging, well-written, etc. They're just not my 'thing,' and I don't really want to deal with them beyond the initial critique and/or follow-up comments. If I offer to read more, then I'm interested in doing so. If I don't offer to read more, then I'm probably not. In my own defense, I have NEVER asked anybody to read my MS. All of my betas, without exception, have been people who offered to read it. I feel happy that I haven't put anybody in a difficult position. I also make it very clear that the moment they lose interest or discover it's not their thing, they are free to stop reading it without having to give me an explanation if they don't feel like it. Our friendship will NOT be affected. And I do mean that sincerely. Some of my best friends have either not engaged with my story, or have not even offered to read it. That's fine with me. It's part of the sorting process of finding a target audience. Or that's the way I look at it, anyway. Like everybody else, my time is limited. And more than my time, my brain needs to be free in order to solve my own story problems. If my brain gets weighted down solving other people's, I lose the impetus to write myself.
Oscar, while people may not expect anything, I think it is all about language people use when responding to a critique. It's about making sure that reviewers understand that they are in no way obligated to explain themselves, as much as the writer might want them to. I remember @Wayjor Frippery wrote me a lovely PM asking me why I wrote him a crappy critique. I only did it to bump his thread because it had no love initially. I'm that lazy even in my attempt to help! He politely expressed how he hoped we were all here to help each other out. He was very courteous so I dragged my sorry ass back to his thread and had attempt # 2. I don't think he liked that one any better either. hehe Politeness goes a long way with me. BTW: I am actually not having a go at you, just letting you understand my thought process on why I may or may not follow up should I provide a critique, and how I would handle my own request for critiques.
I loved it (once I'd mopped up the tears and finished giving CPR to my ego). A good slap in the face is damn healthy now and again. It's too easy to live in a vacuum. We dream of writing words with mass appeal...
I'm apalled anyone would not be grateful of a critique, even if it calls him a hamster who smells of elderberries. I never even considered liking comments in the workshop threads since it seemed obvious to me that an author is always thankful for critique... I'll start doing it from now on.
It's a nice idea to thank each one personally, if you can, by responding (without arguing) to what they said. They did take the time to write something, after all. Just something along the lines of : 'Thanks for your insight. I'll certainly think about what you said,' will do. Obviously that doesn't apply if they have been personally nasty to you—as opposed to giving you a negative critique—but hardly anybody is that nasty on this forum. (If they persist in being nasty, they get banned.)
You loved it?! *shocked* But you never clicked 'Like' so I assumed you hated it and to be honest, until you posted something on the 'Say something nice about someone' I actually thought you didn't like me because I wasn't so enamored with your bird... haha I was rather floored I got a hug.... See what happens when you don't like people's critiques. They assume you really don't like them for being mean but you are just too polite to say so. Or maybe that is just me.
I'd only take it as a slight if every other critique had been liked but not mine. Although in reality, I doubt I'd notice. I'm not bothered if someone thanks me for a critique. I just can't stand it when they argue.
When I joined the forum I was a bit rebelious-anti-like-it's-a-bit-too-facebooky-for-my-refined-and-artful-taste-cough-cough (still am, sometimes, probably – bad Wayjor). I'm not sure if I liked any posts in the bird thread. I did thank you though... and meant what I said. If I went around not liking people [really not liking them – I'm not talking about clicking the like button now] based solely on whether they enjoyed reading my words, I'd be spending a lot of time with my mum (she doesn't like the violent bits – I try not to hold it against her). Have another hug, Linny. I think you're great. ETA: I suppose it's like LSD (said a bloke down the pub) – nobody knows you're tripping [you like them] unless you say so.
And those dynamics vary from country to country. We could start with writing that's clearly public domain, maybe, and see if there's enough interest to justify the trouble of pushing into more modern work? Or we could look at Cory Doctorow or someone else who publishes under some version of creative commons... ETA: Or I wonder if we could look at the first chapter or whatever, as published on the Amazon "look inside" feature. We wouldn't have to reproduce the text here, other than individual lines as needed to clarify discussion, so there shouldn't be a copyright issue, I don't think...?
Just for the record, I usually don't hit the like button only because it rarely crosses my mind to do so. Whenever someone takes the time to write a critique I generally type in a personalized thank you response.
Requests for clarification are fine. Requests for expansion on comments is fine. Any kind of arguing or attempting to sway the critiquer's response, however well meaning, irritate the feck out of me. ETA: I also get annoyed when the writer writes a lengthy post justifying themselves. Like if a critiquer says there was too much description for them, and the writer goes on about why description is good and lists a bunch of books they love with lots of it. Critiques are opinions by their nature, and the only correct response when the writer disagrees is "Thank you."
If anyone's interested, I started a critique thread for the first chapter of Pride and Prejudice. If people find it useful/interesting we could look at doing more? https://www.writingforums.org/threads/test-case-critiquing-austen-first-chapter-p-p.146713/
It's the critiquers OPINION if they're wrong in your opinion then just recognize the fact and move on. There's no point trying to debate a point.
Excellent! I'm going to ask that for now we keep it to this one thread. Austen's Pride and Prejudice is clearly public domain which makes it fair game. At this time I do not want the additional task of having to vet other threads for the same.
Usually these things come down to personal taste/opinion. But even if a critiquer is objectively wrong it is best to say thanks and move along, disregarding his/her comments.
