I am afraid to admit but I think I am a pantser. What shall I do to become a decent plotter?

But why would you assume that? Creativity doesn't necessarily benefit from a planned, rigid, controlled process. It may, for some people, but I see no reason to assume that it would.

As someone mentioned, Stephen King (author of The Shining) is known to be a pantser. And do you know that any of the authors of the other books that you mentioned are big on pre-planning?

(I also don't necessarily agree that the works that you list are masterpieces, but that's a matter of opinion.)

 

Not to sound like a noob but what is pantser and plotter? I suppose I could google but I like getting the answer from the horses mouth if it isn't too much trouble.

 

As I interpret it, a pantser is someone who sits down with a general notion about characters and a situation and just writes, deciding what happens as they go on. The term comes from, I assume, "flying by the seat of their pants."

A plotter figures out what they want the story to be before they start writing it--they know all the major plot points, and in the extreme they may know each and every scene and what's going to happen in it, before they write the first word of the actual book.

 

Interesting, I sort of took forever just to sit down and write, makes me a plotter I guess. I can't imagine trying to writing anything without some idea of the end. the middle I think is subjective and could probably fly by the seat of my pants on a little but, but without an end I don't have a target got the middle to be aiming at. If that makes sense.

 

It makes perfect sense, and points out that there are myriad variations of both pantser and plotter methods. And then there are other methodologies that come into play as well, such as when one does their editing/revising, whether one writes in a linear fashion or by scene, etc etc. This is one reason why new writers' first works are seldom, if ever, of publishable quality - they're still learning what set of methods works best for them.

 

Oh yes. A writer has to be flexible in all things, willing to try new things, willing to listen to other's ideas and opinions. If they aren't, they'll never grow into the kind of quality writer most of us aspire to be.

 

I've recently concluded that I am a pantser for short sections (scene length or maybe chapter length) but that that process is never going to get me to a finished book. So I'm gingerly, and reluctantly, adding some more plotting. The outline for a scene/chapter may declare "Joe and Jane meet, and some kind of injury needs to be involved", and then I "pants" to that goal. We'll see if that works out.

 

Very valid point. Making changes is what editing is all about. People who are too stubborn to admit their writing is less than perfect first-time will probably never get traditionally published. Of course they can self-publish a badly-edited mess, but they'll probably never catch on to why their sales don't move beyond family and friends, who are supportive for the wrong reasons.

However, they do need to finish what they've written even to do that.

I support @shadowwalker's view 100%. If you don't finish your work you will never get published, no matter how good or bad your story may be. Finishing really is the first good habit you need to cultivate. I don't think there is any story idea so bad that it can't be improved with a lot of thought and work–but it does have to be completed first.

You'll never complete anything if you develop the habit of abandoning a project every time you hit a snag, or always see another more brilliant idea shining away on the far horizon and go chasing after that one instead.

 

I'm so sick of these dichotomies.

A pantser does everything by the seat of their pants, you know- every time they're writing they come up with what's going to happen.

A plotter comes up with a plan, you know- every time they're thinking they come up with what's going to happen.

I'm really not sure what's the difference.


I'm also sick of the word "method." Hi I'm XXXX, I'm 100 years old, unpublished, and here's my method! It works for me!

Can we please start using the word tools? Outlining is a tool. Spontaneity is a tool. I might outline my story, write the first draft, and in the third draft as I'm editing at a certain point, BAM, something materializes outside of the original plan and I "pants" it.

The more tools the better.

 

I'm a bit of both

Eh somtimes ya need to outline and sometimes you don't....at least in my case. I mean its good to do both, isn't it? I'd figure most of us just use a combination of the two.

Sometimes you need to outline to get a clear picture and sometimes you can just free ball it.

Whatever works.

 

Might depend how much you hate editing.

Personally, I hate it a LOT. So for me, it's better to fix things as I go and polish as I go rather than 'finish' a first draft and then face the daunting task of 'fixing' it.

So, obviously I agree that you won't be published if you don't finish your MS. But you have to finish the whole process, not just finish the first draft. The best way to finish the whole process may vary from person to person and project to project, and for some of us it may not be a good idea to write a first draft that's going to need a hell of a lot of reworking before it's worth anything.

 

Yeah, I agree with you. Lots of people like to work the way you do ...do the best first draft you can.

I try my best with a first draft as well, although I don't do more than an edit or two before I move on. But if you deliberately write sloppy first drafts, it's not much better than scribbling notes, is it? I think it's not really writing until you knuckle down and try to make it the best you can, so I agree with you.

Maybe I do less editing first time around than you do, simply because (as a pantser!) I'm not absolutely sure where I'm going until I get there. But I guess that's a different issue, and whichever writing method works best for you is the one to choose.

The point I was making—and I get the impression you agree with me—is that whatever method you take to write, you must eventually finish. Walking away and starting something else over and over won't get you published.

 

I suppose each 'tool' has an inherent trap that the user needs to be aware of.

A pantser needs to avoid the trap of never finishing. They can get so enthralled in their characters and situations that they allow themselves to go off in all directions until they've disappeared up their own backside. Either that, or once the creative impulse dies, then so does their interest ...because there isn't really any story. Just a lot of vignettes that don't lead anywhere.

A plotter / planner needs to avoid the trap of never starting. They can become so engrossed in their world building and every little jump and jerk of the plot that they just keep plotting and never start writing. You know the people...the ones who say "I'm working out an outline for a 7-volume series..." Yoiks. Fair enough if that stage doesn't last too long, but I think perhaps people can get so drawn into the organizing stages that they never actually start writing the books at all.

 

I'd agree with these distinctions, with the corollary that "finishing" doesn't just mean getting to the end of the story one time. It may also mean going back and cutting out a lot of the sideplots that were introduced but not brought to fruition, adding significant chunks in order to ensure the story makes sense and is structured in an emotionally satisfying way, etc. The "kill your darlings" advice is probably pretty painful for a pantser to follow, as their first-draft process may consist of writing a hell of a lot of darlings that don't really belong in the story.

And I've also heard of plotter/pantsers who have trouble finishing (even after they DO manage to get started) b/c the work of fleshing everything out is too boring once the excitement of discovering where the story goes is over.

Honestly? Writing is hard work. At some point, it comes down to stubborn determination. Plotter or pantser, there are lots of more 'fun' things to do than choosing the perfect word and then the next perfect word and repeating the process 80 000 damn times.

 

Oh, I enjoy editing too. I love seeing writing snap into focus. I even like killing my darlings, because it makes the overall story better. Bits I truly love I can maybe use in another story somewhere else.

What I HATE is formatting...grrrr.... And writing blurbs, condensing my story into soundbites. I'm about to start that process, and that screeching sound you hear is the sound of boot rubber dragging across the floor. This is where I'd love to just turn the whole process over to the writing elves, and walk away.

 

Blech, formatting! I only have two self-pubbed books and I shipped both of them out for all that! I'm not a detail person at all (possibly why I hate editing).

And I admit I chose publishers at least partly based on how much of the blurb-writing they do for me!

Honestly, if I could find a publisher who would do most of the edits for me, I'd be in heaven! When I read about authors complaining b/c some editor suggested they change a word or something, I'm just amazed. Editors can change my words if they want to! When they send an MS back with all these 'suggested' changes? I just want to yell at them - Fine! Change it! I don't care, I'm done, I've moved on, I no longer care about this stupid book! Do whatever you want!

Possibly I need to work on my attitude.

 

I'm a pantser and I found a lot of my stories were meandering, contained large amounts of abortive work, and were lacking in plot as my mind would wander off in a new direction and leave elements unresolved.

Basically I moved towards sci-fi as it required research and plotting. Of course other genres do as well, but I basically now force myself to plan out in quite some detail and build my work up like a snowflake. If my mind is wandering in a different direction I simply jump to another section of the plot which will accommodate it.

I would also note that modern publishing which requires regular cliffhangers (which become tedious through overuse and the manner in which a story is manipulated around them in popular fiction) also requires a lot of plotting.

I believe that Mervyn Peake was a pantser (correct me if I am wrong) and the Gormenghast trilogy are some of my favourite books.

 

That's funny!