Yeah, but I can tell the difference in when someone is stating an opinion (E.G. The 'standard' of writing is not using italics for thought, and anything else is frowned upon) and fact. (Periods go at the end of declarative sentences) When people are right, they are right, and it drives me up the wall. Or, did-- I haven't been critiqued very recently and I hope I can endure it with more grace and calm than I have been able to. Incidentally, is this your comment: "loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this freaken song!!!!!!!"
I've a question for you. You said that you know when people are right, but still you're filled with fury. Do you feel said fury at the person? Is your anger directed toward the critic for having the audacity to insult you? Or is it directed toward yourself? Do you get angry at the fact that you've done your work, and you feel satisfied by it, but it's still not good enough? I think knowing things like that will help.
No, I am not angry at the reviewer. I am not really even angry with MYSELF, necessarily. . . . I will think for a moment and then tell you what I have discovered. . . . Well, here, in a story format, is basically what goes on in my head: I was nervous when I clicked on the message, and immediately my heart sank when, in my peripheral vision, I saw the red marks. Scrolling down, I looked at the first mistake and a wave of annoyance and frustration rushed through my chest. My eyes kept lowering, and there, midway through, was another mistake. This one I should have saw. I should have noticed it. I should not have submitted it without fixing that. Why did I not see it? Finally, I see the last corrected error and, at this point, my lips are twitching, the corners of my eyes wrinkling as my countenance twists in fury and anger. My upper lip peels back to show my gnashed teeth, "I can't believe this!" I shout at my computer screen, "Stupid mistakes! How can I be a great writer if I constantly make these retarded errors!" I was now standing and leaning forward as I harshly berated myself at the top of my lungs, "I'm supposed to be good, but that's obviously not the case!" The door to my room suddenly opened, causing me to quickly turn and backpedal, then clasp my hands behind my back and stand still. My mother just stared at me. "What are you yelling at?" "Uh. . . sorry." And that's basically it. Even I don't know EXACTLY what it is that bothers me.
I would say you're angry with yourself. Angry that you didn't catch that mistake, that you didn't do something that someone else had to point out. I think you get angry because you know whomever is making corrections isn't doing it personally, and objectively. Since they're not just baselessly slandering your work, and giving you objective critisism, it seems like it's a clear fault on your part. Someone else said (I don't quite remember the name of the poster) that you hold yourself to a high standard of perfection. Like you said, you don't haphhazardly submit your work, but you write it until you're personally satisfied with it, and someone else pointing out possible mistakes shatters that satisfaction, and raises the bar for perfection. I'd compare it to studying for a test, and being very confident about it. Waiting for the teacher to pass it back is done in proud anxiety, even, just to see that 'A'. Then, when the test has returned, it's seen to have a 'B-' on it. I've also found that a lot of emotions, for one reason or another, turn into anger. Anger seems to be that "vent" emotion, rather than one in an of itself. In this case, perhaps for disapointment (at your work not being as good as you thought it was) and anxiety (because every time your writing is corrected, it seems to pull you further away from being an author)? Also, this is just my psudo-psychological rambling, so don't quote me on any of it. I just know, when dealing with an emotion, it really helps to analyze it and know why it's happening.
I think a better way to phrase it is that you(hypothetical "you", not directed at anyone in particular) like to think that you hold yourself to a higher standard. You see work riddled with errors, and you think: "Gosh... I would never submit crap like that." Then, twenty minutes later, you find you mispelled "the" as "te" four times in a row. Ouch. At least, that's been my experience.... sometimes...
I really believe that you have nailed it, here. Particularly the part about being pulled further away from being an author. It's like each mistake is one step further from my goal, one more nail in the coffin of my success. Perhaps I should hold myself to an extremely low standard, not thinking that I am good at all, and that I can only improve. I am glad that you have defined it so exactly. It's like you hit that 'sweet' spot where I am forced to say, "Yes! That's a facsimile of what I am feeling!"
I'm glad I could help. Keeping in mind that there's always room for improvement is a good thing to do, regardless of how well someone does something. Just be sure not to think badly of yourself. That's the other, not-so-good extreme.
Huh. I like this thread. You see, this is the kind of thread where I think I can give some helpful imput, since I'm your complete opposite. I'm never satisfied with the quality of my work. When I submit it to somebody, it's because I'm tired of reviewing it, because I was asked to, or because I don't have the time to do it myself. When it returns, I expect to find corrections. If the other person doesn't point out mistakes or things that can be improved, then he/she is either too nice or lacks the required knowledge to make a valid critique. Either way, that person is useless to me and will not be seeing my work again until it's published. My feelings when I see the red marks on my sheet are satisfaction and joy, since I'm a step closer to perfection. You see, I never make the same mistake twice. Ever. Every time I discover I have failed at something, I engrave that moment in my memory. And it stays there forever, so that next time, I will not do so again. This means that every mistake I find places me one step closer to success. Something I have noticed, in keeping with the Psychology trend of this thread, is that certain types of personality find it hard to accept criticism. These people usually consider their feelings over logic when making decisions, so they cannot become emotionally detached from their work. It's very common in artists and other "sensitive" or "emotional" people. Ask yourself this: Do you become emotionally attached to things? Do you find it easy to empathise with others? Do you prefer to follow your heart instead of your head? If you answered yes to one or more of these questions, then it's highly possible that you're a Feeling person (Yes, yes, I am quoting Myers-Briggs, sue me).
I understand that you wish to stop feeling this way when your work is critiqued but you may not be able to. It might just be your nature. That is ok, we all have our faults, we just have to learn to make do with them. I would say that the more you get upset with critiques the more you should put your work up to be critiqued. Perhaps you will become desensitized. Just a thought.
What if you "logically" find your work flawless and the criticism offends you? Maybe head people would be more likely to be offended because they're less capable at dealing with their emotions directly or honestly. A feeling-person may be better at recognizing and admitting sensitive reactions, but also better at moving on from them. Everyone will feel some degree of threat from criticism, but you have to learn to deal with it and move on, develop resilience, and value writing well over flattery.
I am a-- how would I define myself? A vessel of the myriad and sundry of the continuum of human emotion. I become emotionally attached to things, but I do not find it easy to empathize with others. I NEVER follow my heart, but I rarely follow my head. Instead, I follow unthinking whim or impulse. I'm a fairly complicated person, but I wish I had YOUR outlook on things.
I disagree. You can logically find your work flawless, yes, but if you are a logical person, then you will understand that what you are feeling is not helping you improve and you will not lose your composure. Actually, head people would be less likely to be offended because, by definition, they give their emotions less weight when making a decision. If you are a feeling person, then you value your emotions more than logic, so if criticism offends you, then it's more likely that you will listen to that over logic. And I agree with you, "learn to deal with it and move on, develop resilience, and value writing well over flattery" is only logical that if you want to improve as a writer, so taking offense at criticism is counter-productive. Atari: Actually, following your whims could be considered following your heart, depending on the nature of those impulses. If they are based on feelings or emotions, then you're following your heart. Oh, and I don't really think you wish you had my outlook. It took a lot of failing and trauma, something I wouldn't recommend to anybody.
True, and I considered that for several moments before posting it, but in the end, I realize that it really IS just impulses. It's completely lacking thought or real feeling. It's a random, spontaneous compulsion that I follow without any rhyme or reason. Even when you follow your heart, there is generally some THOUGHT involved. But in any case, I think what needs to be said has already been said best by Ghosts in Latin.
Well, when I said "follow your heart," I meant "do as you feel." If you feel angry and you resort to physical or verbal violence, for example, then you are following your heart, even if you did it on a spur of the moment, without thinking on what you were doing. Hence why most legal systems reduce the sentence when you murder someone in the heat of an argument, because your emotions took over you and you lost control. Truly an extreme example, but you get the point. But yes, I agree that Ghosts in Latin has indeed said it best.
Atari, i feel the exact same way. when i write, its all that i think about eachday and how i truely feel about someone. and it hurts me, when someone says that they dont like it or has to point out what is wrong with it, because its my own thoughts, and its my own personal opinion. and i try to avoid politics because others dont respect others opinions. but i guess i'm going to find politics and people like that in any shape or form. and i cant stop running away from it, i have to grow and learn from them critisizing me. even if their intentions are good.
I started seriously critiquing pieces about 3 months ago. Doesn't seem that long when considering how long i've been writing. lol i used to argue against every critique, every point. Argue my side, explain why i meant what i mean, why my words had to be used not theirs. But then I realised something. That if a reader(well more than one) didn't understand what i was saying, well then it needed to be reworded. It's hard to let go of a story you put your heart into, where you think its the best you can do and someone does the slash through it or colours it red or bolds it. But it does help if you let it. We are here to learn, each of us has something to teach someone else. Or that's how i look at it now. I also learnt to accept that my critiques aren't law either and that my suggestions aren't necessarily the best ones. So i look at how the writer said it and learn from them. It's hard to let go both ways. but if you want to improve, really want to improve, you have to see both sides, look at it as an editor would. And when you critique, dont' just look for the negative, you teach nothing that way, you show the good also. This is a writers' forum, not a place to showcase and leave. You can learn a lot from people here, if you let them show you. my thoughts of course can vary from yours. happy writing
I don't like being critiqued because I am always a little shy about sharing my ideas and my work. I am usually embarrassed if something I produced totally sucks and end up discouraging myself from writing in general. I am attempting to get past this and hopefully come out with something I am proud of.
The initial problem with being critiqued is that people like to think their work is the best they can possibly do. To then find there are problems with it is upsetting, because you have plans for everything you write, in some way. The second problem is: this is the internet. I know from years of posting various works on forums that there are two inevitable truths. 1. Hundreds of people really do not understand the very basics of critique, of the purpose behind things. When you post something that has taken months to write, cast, produce and at last, has been uploaded you will feel angry when the first response is: 'lol. u must hav 2 much tym. dis is sad.' While nothing that extreme is likely to happen here, we're all of one mind and share a similar hobby, it can be frustrating to read 'Ya know, this was wrong, this was wrong and this...sucked'. It is important that you should be brutally honest and both positive AND negative. People generally don't mind being shown what you believe is wrong with their work if they know there are things you found right about it. 2. Everyone has an opinion. And while every single one is valid to a point, you develop a certain maturity in how you take reviews that means you sift out certain things. You, and only you, fully understand your work, the emotions you felt while writing and the exact thoughts going through your head as you wrote. If someone has a problem with something you felt worked, seriously question whether it did. If you STILL think it works then develop it. You won't please everybody, but at least you'll have work that you are happy with. You are the writer and critique is something you SHOULD use to develop your style. But don't let someone suggest you change that style if you feel it works. Take on board criticism, but take it all with a pinch of salt.
Without harsh feedback you'll never strive to improve and after years of investing time in your stories the industry will tell you you suck. So yeah, it's good to know where you stand all the time. And it also matters who critiques your work. Because it may be brilliant but some jerk washout will tell you it's bad simply because he/she's an idiot or too closed-minded on their own style. And on the other hand you can't assume everyone's an idiot. If 1 out of 10 people think your work is good you need to reach that rank of people who enjoyed it.
Atari, You said you write and re-write something until you feel completely satisfied with it before submitting it to be critiqued and then when it's not as perfect as you feel it is, you get angry and frustrated. My advice? Stick with the first draft, don't correct it all, and submit *that* one for critique. And then fix it with those suggestions (whichever ones work) and re-write it. Then submit it again. And so on. Until both you and the people you're asking for critiques like it. Don't write a piece to perfection in your own mind if you want it critiqued...it's just a setup for failure from the beginning. I did that with one piece before and only one piece..and I was so devastated and crushed that I stopped writing for about a month. And then I realized what I just advised you to do...and everything has worked out for me since then. ~Lynn
Nobody likes being critiqued, especially by people who don't say one nice thing about it. However, that's life. As people have already mentioned, everyone has detractors--even the greats. I know that doesn't make it any easier, but I think the reason it's hard is because of the way one looks at his or her writing. I think we all put our work out there with a secret dream in the back of our minds that it'll be great and people will have nothing but praise for it. The nervousness comes from your better judgment telling you that such a dream is just that--a dream. If you get your hopes up, it hurts when they aren't realized. The answer is simple: refine your hopes. As someone said, don't even try to please everyone. You won't. Moreover, you can't. You might as well chase a rainbow. What you should focus on is pleasing your target audience. Your target audience can be as broad as "all fans of fantasy fiction", or as specific as "people who've been through what I've been through". Just focus on what you have to say with your work, and let fate worry about the rest. Chances are if it's important and moving to you, someone else out there will resonate with it too. In fact, lots of people probably will. Don't worry about the ones who don't. Maybe they didn't get it, maybe they don't like your style, or maybe they just don't like the premise of your story. If that's the case, oh well. They probably weren't the ones you were trying to reach anyway. I find the best way to take critiques is with a dose of humility. You may be good, even very good, but you can always be better. Don't take a critique as an attack on you, or even your work. Take it as advice. Listen to it, honestly think about it, and then decide whether or not to accept it. You don't always have to accept it. Honestly, not everyone's critiques will be fair, enlightened, or even helpful. Listen to what they have to say, but believe in yourself--don't just assume that they necessarily know more than you do and are always right. Just don't take it too far and get arrogant. My last bit of advice is to critique others' works. Being on the other side will probably help you realize that people are not attacking you personally when they criticize your work. Even the people who don't say anything nice about your story may really mean it when they say they liked it at the end of their critique.
phantasmal, You make a very good point. It's very important to critique others so that you understand that there's nothing personal about the critiquing process itself. ~Lynn
I don't get this thread... I suppose I just don't get the idea of posting a work on a writing forum that encourages people to comment on others work and then being offended when people comment on it. It seems like if I can't stand someone critiquing my work than I shouldn't post it on a writing forum. However, it's good that you are trying to deal with your issue.
