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  1. Miller0700
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    Miller0700 Contributing Member

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    "I don't hate gay people, I just don't like when flaunt their behavior in my face." Mini-Rant

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Miller0700, May 10, 2016.

    I hate that phrase so much. It's not even so much as the flamboyant and obnoxious gay stereotype that gets flung around by people who use that phrase, but just when they see a same sex couple kissing, hugging, holding hands or showing any kind of affection around them. No, I think you do hate gay people if their behavior is enough to make you uncomfortable and in most cases, angry. Just be honest and tell them that they want them to go back into the closet than to pretend you actually care. People who use that line probably wouldn't use it on straight couples, so there's that. Why crap on people who've been crapped on for so long already?
     
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  2. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    That's how I feel about the current transgender/bathroom thing. Everyone who opposes trans people using the bathroom of their choice have the excuse, "it's just opening up the door for pedophiles and sexual predators." Well, do I have news for you! Twelve states in the US have anti-discriminatory laws in place so that trans people can use the bathroom of their choice -- some of which were created as far back as twenty years ago -- and not a single state has seen an increase in rape or sexual assault, nor have they received any complaints (as far as the people interviewed were aware).

    So the excuse people are using is just that -- an excuse. Let's be honest and call it what it is. Pure discrimination. It's not about safety. It's about people not wanting to share a bathroom with "freaks in dresses." It's disgusting. And it's one cause I'll fight til the end.
     
  3. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Let's be honest. Gay guys are hot. Flaunt moar pls.
     
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  4. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    Psht. Gay women are hot. I have a serious crush on iO.

    tumblr_o3datmpJf81qasro0o1_500.jpg
     
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  5. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Especially when, ironically, it's the heterosexual behavior that's being flaunted in their faces. I've seen so much heterosexual relationship in media, and scantly-clad women on advertisement that I'm actually turned off. Sorry, but a slender woman in a red dress rubbing herself on a car isn't going to make me want to buy that car, commercial. Not that it's gonna stop you from making them...
     
  6. Miller0700
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    Miller0700 Contributing Member

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    Don't you just love double standards?
     
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  7. Earp
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    Earp Active Member

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    My late stepfather used to say the same thing about basketball players who wore long, loose shorts. Never understood what made their choice of clothing 'in his face'.

    I'm a big fan of displays of affection, public and private, and don't care about the preferences of the participants.

    As for transsexuals, I think we should label them as 'DNA deniers', round them up and prosecute them under the RICO statutes for presuming to question settled biological science.
     
  8. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Or.... you can turn it around and see it down the other end of the spyglass, so to speak. :whistle:

    Bear with me; I promise to get to the point.

    It's actually a sign of progress. Twenty years ago when I was 26 years old and in my prime, there was nothing for anyone to complain about because outside of special enclaves in larger cities, we would never have dared to hold hands or brush crumbs off of our hubbie's shirt, or fix his hair or collar or any of the million, completely innocent ways in which a relationship - any relationship - strengthens and reaffirms its internal bonds. Today people who think gays are ookie have something to complain about because we dare, we do, we no longer hide. Not every couple and not in every circumstance, but it happens now. The fact that people have reason to say "I don't hate gay people; I just hate when they flaunt their behavior in my face" is a sign of the most important change that needs to happen: The change in gay people ourselves.

    I'll give you a different example:

    When I first met my hubby William, I thought I had hit the jackpot. As regards appearance, it's like I designed him myself. As regards personality, he's the life of the party, witty, always has the funny thing to say just at the perfect moment. Hardworking, industrious. I don't have a single complaint.

    But...

    We live in Puerto Rico. William and I are both Puerto Rican. My family is Americanized, but William and his family are genuine, real-deal, local PR's. When it came to his behavior and interaction with me around our respective families, he would shift to a pre-scripted, culturally ordained pretense that we were just good buddies (the word in Spanish is panas). No. No, no, no, no, no! That was something I had to fix because I wasn't going to let Mr. Perfect get away, but I also wasn't going to play that game in front of my family. My family has known about me since I was 13. We've bridged every bridge that needs bridging as regards me being gay. It took time, but I finally got William to see that pretending in front of my family was disrespectful. To me, to them, and to our relationship. It took me much longer to get him to feel the same way in front of his family and in many ways it was simply about me asserting who I really was in all the million small ways that this happens.

    In the end, it was good for our relationship and for the relationship each of us has with our own families and with each other's families. William calls my mom just to chat with her. I go to William's auntie' house for coffee on occasion and they receive me with kisses and hugs and food.

    It's the way things should be in any relationship. But, as mentioned, there were some internal issues that we needed to correct in order for the external paradigm to be more ideal. And again, twenty years ago, I don't know if it would have happened.

    There's still a lot of in-culture programming from which the LGBT community needs to heal. The complaint you hear is a part of that healing processes. That healing process comes with a lot of change, both in the community and outside the community, and change isn't easy. People don't just flip switches and let go of long-standing programming. But the change has to come from us first. When we stop behaving like there's something to be ashamed of in having a same-sex partner, then we stop giving others a reason to deduce that there may be something shameful in it. Clearly there isn't, but when we ourselves behave that way, then we give cause for others to think that.

    And then there's pamphlet arguments that make being LGBT all about - and ONLY about - what happens in the bedroom. Let me disabuse any person reading this who isn't LGBT, but the phenomenon of sex tapering off after the "honeymoon period" is exactly the same in LGBT couples as it is in str8 couples. So, just like with any relationship, there comes a point where you really cannot define it along lines of what you do with your private parts. And that's a tough sell because there is as much investment on the sex being the defining part within the community as there is outside the community. The very words that we use to put us into boxes are loaded with presuppositions. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual... etc. Those words are inventions. They were created to describe a phenomenon, the key word being created. As a linguist, I can tell you that sometimes we're shitty at creating words to describe things, especially when we don't completely understand those things. In Puerto Rico, for instance, we have mongooses here and even though there is a perfectly good word for mongoose in Spanish (mangosta), no one calls them that. They call them ardillas, which is the Spanish word for squirrel, because the locals back in the day simply didn't know any better when these animals were imported to take care of mice. In like fashion, the words that describe us as regards our relationships were created by someone fixated on bedroom activities and clearly blind to the fact that relationships are made of so much more than sex. And don't even get me started on how shitty a coinage the word homophobia is. It's not a fucking phobia.

    So anyway. Change is never easy. We are living through a very strong current of change right now, as we speak, as regards cultural views of different kinds of relationships and different ways of perceiving oneself. I'm not angry about it. I'm not angry at the fact that people complain. I'm happy that they have something to complain about.
     
  9. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    What is that supposed to mean?
     
  10. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    Did you happen to catch the show Bride and Prejudice? It's about three couples trying to get married, but their families are against their union because of their own prejudice (religion, race, and orientation to be exact). It's hard to watch at first because of some of the terrible things said. But it's almost beautiful watching the families come around, especially with the gay couple.

    The only reason I mention it is because your story reminds me of them. :p One guy has been open essentially his entire life, so his mom accepts him fully. But his partner tries to hide it in front of his family, not touching or showing any sort of affection. It was a good show. :)
     
  11. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Nope, not seen it. :) But it sounds like a good representation of what I'm talking about. We often let ourselves be trained to conform to a way of behaving that only reinforces the negative things others believe about us. Breaking that cycle is not at all easy, and can be painful and emotionally charged, but that's life. No one gets a "free and easy" card. And I know I fixate on the words we use to discuss these things, and name these phenomena, and it may seem like I'm being overly pedantic in this, but I don't think so. Words shape thought as much as thought shapes words. When I first started pointing out to William how unhappy I was with the pretense in front of my family and his, his word were, "No lo hago, por respeto." I don't do it, out of respect. It's a thing you hear all the time from closeted gay people here in PR. Out of respect. Because when they encapsulate their behavior inside of a thought process that allows them to believe that hiding is the respectful thing to do, then it becomes internally okay to do. It a coping mechanism that allows them to circumvent and never deal with the issue. And it's the words that create the thought that allows and enables the behavior. So, when I explained to William that the very opposite was true in my eyes, that pretending and lying was the disrespectful thing, I wasn't starting from zero as regards change with him. I was starting from the negative side of the number line. It was a lot of work. And I am sure there are plenty of people here who will take exception to the idea of me trying to change another person's POV or way of being, but that's okay. Those people aren't in my relationship, so their opinion is of little import to me. The only people in my relationship are William and I, and by extension, our families. I live the fact every day that the change I started was of benefit to everyone. ;)
     
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  12. Wayjor Frippery
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    Wayjor Frippery Contributing Member

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    Those who have never been in love, for example.

    Oh, oh! Controversial. *Wayjor runs for the hills*

    I live and work in Spain. A country full of lovely people, but also a great deal of casual racism, sexism, gayism, and many other -isms, that make a sensitive northerner like me raise a perfectly manicured eyebrow. I ask questions (I'm a teacher, so the opportunity to ask them is frequently available) which I hope will make people ask themselves more.

    'No tengo nada contra los maricones, pero...' 'I have nothing against gays [pejorative], but...'
    'Wow, yes, I can see how that would upset you. So what would you say if it was your son who did it...?'
    etc.


    In a one-to-one class there's nowhere for the buggers* to hide. Nobody has walked out on me yet.


    TLDR: dem woz good words wot Wreybies sed.

    *as a linguist, Wrey, you may chuckle at my use of this word to your heart's content. Oh, the irony. Oh, those crazy Brits. *wink winky wink wink*
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
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  13. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Is that a joke?
     
  14. Guttersnipe
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    Guttersnipe Member

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    Just so we're clear, there are lots of people who complain about hetero PDAs as well. I don't know if it's the same people or not. There are also people who (ferex) don't like overt displays of religiousity, which can include lecturing people at the drop of a hat, handing out pamphlets, praying loudly (and usually passive-aggressively criticizing someone in the process), and so on.

    So, to expand the question a bit, to what extent do people have the right to have an opinion about other people's public behavior? And (a different question) to what extent do they have the right to attempt to enforce their opinion?

    I'm a great believer in personal rights, but more importantly IMO, I try to be consistent about my beliefs. This includes conceding the same rights to people whose opinions I despise. However, having said that, just because I support someone's right to have an opinion and to voice it loudly, doesn't mean I have to respect the content of that opinion. The way to handle such people, IMO, is not to tell them they can't say that. Doing so just makes them martyrs. Instead, explain to them exactly how and why their opinion sucks donkey balls. Force them to try to justify it. Do that enough times, back them into a corner enough times, and maybe you'll hear a little less of it.
     
  15. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    When I was a teenager, I used to feel exactly the way about straight people.

    And then I grew the **** up. Is it too much to ask that straight people do the same thing the rest of us have had too?

    Yeah, that's why I describe my orientation as "asexual-aromantic" whenever possible and not just "asexual." Not only are they two different things, but they don't even match 100% of the time: most people are heterosexual-heteroromantic, but some people are bisexual-homoromantic, heterosexual-aromantic, asexual-biromantic...

    Sadly, it does roll of the tongue better than "heterosupremacist".
     
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  16. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    And I think heterosexual-biromantic is there too. I've had a couple of bromances that couldn't really be described as anything else. Str8 guy whose friendship was more than just your regular friendship. It was like dating. I think it was dating. When your str8 best buddy wants to cuddle in front of the TV and you know that what's happening is a special, delicate thing, so don't fuck it up by reaching down his pants, you know, just let it be what it is.... what do you call that? I don't know.

    I do think that if more str8 guys allowed themselves that - just that - a lot of them would be happier people. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Oh the list goes on :) Just the most basic split of 4 orientations (hetero-, homo-, a-, bi-) turns into 16 when you realize that sexual and romantic orientations aren't the same thing.

    Which actually leads to a [SARCASM]funny[/SARCASM] observation about religious wingnuts' views on sexuality:

    The standard byline is "Straight couples make love, gay couples fu screw" (translation into 4x4 orientation: "Heterosexuals/bisexuals are always heteroromantic, homosexuals are always aromantic"), but the people who say this when they're talking about gay rights also tend to be the people who say "It is a woman's responsibility never to be a slut who desires her own sexual pleasure, but to always be available for her husband's pleasure regardless of consent" (translation: "Women have to be asexual-heteroromantic, men have to be heterosexual-aromantic") when talking about women's rights.

    Which one of those do they actually believe: men have to be heterosexual-aromantic and women have to be asexual-heteroromantic, or everybody has to be heterosexual-heteroromantic? It's not possible for both statements to be them telling the truth. Which is it?
     
  18. Earp
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    Earp Active Member

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    It was a clever allusion to the creepy recent calls to prosecute people who disagree with the current 'consensus' on climate change.
     
  19. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Sadly for your equivelancy, one is people swapping genitals, the other actually has consequences.
     
  20. Earp
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    Earp Active Member

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    You're right. Sadly, the consequences of the government punishing people for their opinions seem to be lost on the eco-warriors. We don't do that here in the US. YCMV.
     
  21. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    So tired of all this crap. We all bleed red, we all die. We are all the same. We are just people. I am older now and I thought our country would be farther along on these issues. I have not given up yet, but man its tiring.
    I don't care who you are or who you love. I'm straight and married to a wonderful woman. I wish happiness for all.
    If I am at a party wearing my Philadelphia Flyers Jersey and a gay couple comes in wearing Boston Bruins attire, there will be an argument and in the end I will have two new hockey buddies. Unless it gets too heated from when Philly beat them for the cup in the 70's.
    Still got hope, just wish all this nonsense would end so we can all get back to living. For all the gay couples out there, I see and understand your fight. Hopefully soon we can all get over it. Hopefully before I'm dead. Have a great weekend everyone, I am going home.
     
  22. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    Sorry for the rant, just tired. You think the greatest country in the world would be far past all the nonsense. Get back to finding happiness instead of hatred.
     
  23. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Sadly, it's human nature to put those who are different in “those” groups and “they are not to be trusted!!” We've yet to get rid of our primitive, reptilian brain that used to be at the forefront of our mental faculties for millions of years. The notion of compassion and logic/reason is kind of new to us on the grand scheme of things.
     
  24. Shattered Shields
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    Shattered Shields Gratsa!

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    I hope I don't regret this post.

    This "flaunt behavior" can be accurate. Some people are annoyed by especially animated behavior, I can be the same way if I am tired or frazzled. If I am in a public place, then I won't say anything, since they have the right to be as bombastic as I to be somber (and then I would leave, hopefully to a nap). And if a person were to talk to me, and talk literally about nothing other than being gay and LGBT issues- I'm sorry, that would get old pretty quick. However, if they were to talk about nothing but waffles, that would also get old pretty quick.

    The first objection I have to the statement is that its selective to homosexuals. I'm not interested in people's sex lives, but that's for everyone, gay or straight.

    The second objection is that the statement seems to imply a bias, and it's also a very immature sentence to utter. Homosexuals have been abused throughout recent history. Tales of such things from Jamaica have horrified me. So when many Homosexuals have been through such ordeals, one sounds like a rich prat when uttering such a statement. I'm sorry, but you're annoyed? Oh dear me, thats so awful! But of course, this is all based on an assumption.

    So, really, the statement could mean one of two things. Either one is annoyed by a shallow homosexual, or one has a bias against the same sort of folks.
     
  25. Simpson17866
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    How often to you deem straight people to be talking about "literally nothing other than being straight"? I'm asexual, and I spend all of my teenage years wishing you people would find something else to talk about.

    Close, but not quite there.

    Should straight people not be allowed to kiss the people they love in public because "I'm not interested in their 'sex' lives"?

    Thank you for that much at least.
     
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