I want to be a Poet...

Discussion in 'The Craft of Writing Poetry' started by VynniL, May 21, 2016.

  1. Foxe

    Foxe Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Canada
    The pursuit of poetry is a pursuit to understand yourself in relation to the world, but more specifically, I think that it is an attempt to define yourself within the world around you. Whether its cathartic, revelatory, praising, exulting, damning, melancholic, sanguine, choleric, or phlegmatic, the poem seeks make tangible the writer's abstract thought/feeling and, in so doing, make it real.

    What does this mean to you, the budding poet?
    Start to look at the world with curious eyes and an open heart and see what any particular thing means to you, love, loss, a breeze, a vivid childhood memory, etc. You're now a scholar of life so question everything and see what answer comes from within. There are lot of interesting questions that don't need an essay or a novel to delve into.

    For reading, I'd suggest getting your hands on an anthology of poetry and make sure it has good footnotes and, in a perfect world, a little biography of the poet. Reading how other poets became poets and wrote the things that they did will help you discover the kind of poet you are.
     
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.
  2. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @KokoN - If I struggle, I know I've always got the dummy book to break my fall, if needed. If I crash through that, I obviously cannot be helped. ;-)

    @Lorena - Thanks so much for that site. I just had a look now and it looks like a good starting point for style explanations. Very well laid out.

    @aguywhotypes - A poetic response of lewdness? She was just being subjective. I fully intend to hunt this woman down and be a fan, once I create another account which hopefully survives. hehe

    @JLT - Thank you so much, that's pretty much what I am looking for, guidance on looking at how to break down a poem and get to the multi layers of meaning. Often I am so blinded by the format, I don't want to look closely. It was so kind of you to take the time to tap all that up and was very helpful.

    @thirdwind - I'm glad someone mentioned I can not like the famous ones. People have sent me Yeats before and I wasn't a fan. But I wasn't open to reading poetry then, so I'll give it another shot. I appreciate you emphasizing that I don't need to agree. I'm a disagreeable sort anyway, but at least I won't feel so bad about it now. ;) Will certainly take note of my style (once I figured it out) and chase around for similar stuff.

    @Foxe - Oh thank you so much! I enjoyed what you said and how you laid it out. I very much like the idea that I am to be a Scholar of Life. That is one title I'd never thought to pin onto myself. Also much appreciated on the reading advice, I would never have considered footnotes and biography. :)

    Anyway, I really feel fortunate for the help I've been given. The combination of all responses has made poetry seem so accessible to me now.

    Thank you all.
     
    Oscar Leigh and KokoN like this.
  3. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    Why?
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  4. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    If by why, you mean why poetry seems more accessible to me now. It's because I feel very inadequate in this area. Unlike reading novels, something I have done all my life, I don't read poems at all. I really didn't know where to start. I come from a place of zero appreciation. What everyone has done here is make it seem so easy to find a starting point, and generated so much more enthusiasm for the endeavor. I greatly appreciate that, they've all inspired me in wanting to make more of an effort than I did before I kicked off this thread. I didn't expect much help to be honest. I expected to be mocked for wanting to try.

    I can do it all alone, but it would have felt like I was a climbing a wall blindly. Now, I feel like I've been given a lot of friendly advice on how to find a suitable entrance.
     
  5. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,243
    Location:
    Australia
    I ask because knowing why you want to write poetry is the most important part. It's not what gets you started. It's what keeps you going.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  6. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @Selbbin I think that's just a difference in philosophy. All my life, it's about what gets me started that makes the biggest impact in my life. So getting started, taking an interest and being inspired is the most important to me.

    Because it can be assumed (at least for myself) that once I've got the push, I usually keep going because I am curious and want to explore further. And even if I don't, I still would have learnt something in my short foray. I'm all about new experiences and new ways of looking at things.

    Edit: Sorry, I misread your last response. But it applies in general anyway.

    As to why I want to write poetry, I posted a long winded follow up response somewhere in this thread. So the question was already answered.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  7. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    And because I am still the Queen of Inappropriateness, I decided to grab that mock poem and I sent privately and post it here. I normally keep my bad stuff private, so excuse the language, it wasn't meant to be for public eyes. But since everyone has been so nice and kind, I thought I would post something you all can roll your eyes at in horror of what an Anti-Poet could come up with. hehe

    Yeah, I am a terrible troll. Feel free to virtually slap me.

    Anyway, I was mocking some ideas of another writer had; we were plotting something together and had some disagreements as to how the male MC should behave to nasty female MC. So in it, I stuck a poem the female MC wrote to Alpha hero after he made an unexpected visit. I was being sarcastic, just in case I rile up the feminists!

    So this is my one and only attempt ever at writing a 'poem' and yes, it rhymes and summarizes a scene we were disagreeing about. It was when I started trying to figure out where all the punctuation should go, and why the hell I was even trying to write a poem, that I finally thought...enough of this, I should spend some time learning real poetry.

    So if in 6 months time I do become a legitimate "Scholar of Life", I'll come back to this very first mock attempt and compare. lol

    Title: Alpha man kicked down my door

    Handsome stranger you killed my guard
    and left so quick, with no regard
    After you kicked my lovely door
    and looked at me like I'm a whore
    But no challenge shall ever be
    too real, such you look at me
    and think you will just withdraw
    leave me thinking I am a bore
    I want for not there to be a hitch
    You thinking, I'm an easy bitch
    So come back, and come back soon
    Longing for you, I gaze at the moon
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  8. KokoN

    KokoN Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    250
    Lol nice poem ;) Now as a poetry exercise/quiz: Notice the rhythm in your poem. Which lines roll off the tongue better, and which seem like the rhythm is slightly off? And why do you think that is?
     
    Mocheo Timo, VynniL and Oscar Leigh like this.
  9. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    Arrrgh, Koko! You're not meant to actually quiz me on my dodgey poem. I wrote that on the fly while sniggering over my keyboard!

    But I can answer your question though.

    I really didn't like this line, and might have changed it as such: "I want for not there to be a hitch"

    I also wanted to change the last line: "Longing for you, I gaze gazing at the moon"

    - but hubby enjoyed it and wanted me to leave it be. He actually thought it hilarious at the unintended wolf reference considering she didn't want to be a "bitch". lol
    Edit: I really wanted to put full stops all over it, but it didn't look so poem-like when I tried, so when uncertain, use nothing. Except, I felt the commas were needed. Note, that's just me assuming that I can do that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2016
    KokoN and Oscar Leigh like this.
  10. KokoN

    KokoN Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    250
    Lol but I'm a teacher and so my default is to find teachable moments!! And this one is perfect to teach you about rhythm and iambic pentameter :)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iambic_pentameter

    Here's a hint: count how many syllables are in each line. The first 5 lines have 8 syllables each and have the same rhythm pattern. Starting at the 6th line, your syllables and meter varies. One way to keep a consistent meter--if that's what you want--is to keep the same number of syllables in each line. However, this doesn't always work depending on the way the words are pronounced. For example, the word "handsome" I would say HANDsome" not "handSOME." But the word "withdraw" I would pronounce "withDRAW" rather than "WITHdraw." Does that make sense? I don't know what your background information on rhythm is so I apologize if I'm telling you stuff you already know.

    Notice how I said "if that's what you want." Not all poems have consistent meter. However, you need to know about meter because consistent or not, it should still be intentional. In order to have intentional meter you need to know what it is and how to use it.
     
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.
  11. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @KokoN

    OMG... Who would have thought I'd get a lesson on rhythm and Iamic pentameter on a jokey poem. You are a scary, fierce 23 year old! I shall re-read above post carefully next clear head space moment I have, and make sure to learn my meter theory properly.

    Thank you. I'm going to make sure I not only skim your work you sent, but read it with a fine tooth comb. It's the least I can do with all the help you've given me. ;)
    Much love for your help! xox :love:
     
    Oscar Leigh and KokoN like this.
  12. KokoN

    KokoN Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    250
    You're welcome! :) I'm going to take scary and fierce as compliments. ;)
     
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.
  13. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Kingdom of Austniad
    As a non-professional poet, i urge you to read the classics, the amateurs and anything else you can pull up or get your hands on. Also have a thesaurus handy to create some really distinct work that stands out among the rest.
     
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.
  14. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    2,233
    I just remembered something that a poet said when Kurt Vonnegut asked her about what poetry does. She said something like "It extends the language."

    It reminded me of the origin of the word "daisy." There's a beautiful bit of poetry there: it was originally "day's eye."
     
  15. Wayjor Frippery

    Wayjor Frippery Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    733
    Location:
    Tranquility Base
    You could do a lot worse than read this book (Amazon link). It's called 'The Ode Less Travelled' and it's by a British national treasure called Stephen Fry. It's written in a chatty style but it contains serious stuff about rhythm, metre, style and content. There are even exercises to try if the fancy takes you.

    I'm sure there are a million books on how to write poetry, and I expect many are better than this one, although it's really not a bad place to start.

    And the hardback edition is small enough to fit in a baggy pocket. Which is always nice.

    ---------

    Other advice (my advice). Ignore all that classical shite that requires a degree in classics to understand (at least to begin with — it may be wonderful, but who has time these days to decipher all those allusions and metaphors?). The best poetry goes straight to the heart and speaks of us to us about us. And it does so in the language that we use every day.

    Happy writing. :)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.
  16. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @Fullmetal Xeno - Thanks, I strangely do not use the thesaurus enough in my general writing. Must be that I am rather lazy, but maybe this is where poetry will help when I am forced to find more pretty and interesting words.

    @JLT - Thanks again. That's exactly what I see in the potential of Poetry, that it will ultimately "extend my language" if I give it the proper respect.

    Also, the word "daisy" is so much more prettier to me now. :)

    @Wayjor Frippery - Many thanks! I am very interested in what Stephen Fry has to say about poetry. And maybe I should not admit it, but every comment that tells me I don't need to pay too much attention to the classics gets an underscore for later reference. I will definitely be looking across them, but I'm hoping to find and focus on the famous poets that gives me the least metaphoric overburden.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  17. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    I had a moment of boredom today and I decided to try and write hubby a short and simple love poem. It failed.

    His response made me laugh, so I thought I'd share. My text is in the grey section and his is white, in case it isn't obvious...

    upload_2016-5-27_6-57-14.png

    And yes, I am still rhyming. I've not actually sat down and had my moment of silence and deep reflection to study poetry and channel enough poetic energy in me to not rhyme!

    I'll get there and I'll be sure to post my first real attempt in the critique section when I do. :-D
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  18. Solar

    Solar Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    747
    To further echo: do read poetry. But more importantly, read contemporary poetry.
    Language is living and always changing. Poetry is a reflection of the now. This is why when
    you try to emulate the diction of Keats or Wordsworth it doesn't feel right.

    By all means, enjoy the classics and the craft that goes into them (especially if you wish to
    write formal structures). But don't forget to read the poets of today. There are plenty out there.
    As someone said earlier, explore and discover your taste.

    And when you're ready, begin studying the craft of it; that is, good technique. When
    you learn to play guitar you're taught how to fret properly and avoid fret-buzz. That's
    good technique. You get a clearer sound. It's the same with poetry. An unintended
    mixed-metaphor, for example, is bad technique. It creates the poetic equivalent of fret-buzz.

    Good luck with it all.
     
    VynniL likes this.
  19. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    I did stumble on a poem I enjoyed and it wasn't the flowery kind I was expecting. Maybe because it came across as pragmatic and masculine, but still dealing sensitively with the love theme. It reminded me of the kind of feelings I'd like in my heroes in any story I write.

    It's originally Spanish and was translated to English. So in the back of my mind I wondered if that diminished the poetry. That it would have been more beautiful in its original form. What I did notice was that it was translated differently all over the place. This is one I settled on.

    Here it is:

    Tactics and Strategy by Mario Benedetti

    My tactic is to look at you
    To learn how you are
    Love you as you are
    My tactic is to talk to you
    And listen to you
    And construct with words
    An indestructible bridge
    My tactic is to stay in your memory,
    I don't know how
    Nor with what pretext
    But stay within you
    My tactic is to be honest
    And know you are too
    And that we don't sell each other illusions
    So that between us there is no curtain or abyss
    My strategy instead is
    Deeper and simpler.
    My strategy is that some day
    I don't know how, nor with what pretext
    That finally you need me
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  20. Solar

    Solar Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    747
    May I recommend a couple of collections?
     
    VynniL likes this.
  21. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @Solar I'd appreciate it. I do value everyone's opinion who have contributed here. :)
     
  22. JLT

    JLT Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    2,233
    That's always a danger with translation. The best one can hope for is that the translator is a talented poet in his or her own right. That's why, of all the translations I've seen of Beowulf, the best is Seamus Heaney's. It isn't the most literally accurate, but it best conveys the "feeling" of the original.

    And my favorite translation of Dante's Divine Comedy is the one by John Ciardi, one of the last century's most respected poets.

    Speaking of Ciardi, he wrote one of the best introductions to poetry and poetry appreciation around: How Does A Poem Mean? It's still the gold standard for this sort of book, along with Laurence Perrine's Sound and Sense: An Introduction to Poetry.
     
    VynniL likes this.
  23. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    @Wayjor Frippery- as I said to you, I've already downloaded Stephen Fry's The Ode Less Traveled, and I am glad he said that it is hard not to rhyme. I am still struggling with this as you will see in lower post.

    I tried to get Howl and Other Poems, but it's still not available in Kindle form. My taste for the more shocking and naughty will just have to wait.

    @JLT I wanted to say thank you for the above suggestions.

    I think I actually asked if there was such a thing as long winded poems...and I guess I have my answer in the epic Beowulf, all 3182 lines of it! I don't think I have quite the intelligence to absorb this one as an Anti-Poet. Maybe when I grow up a little. I got cross eyed when I looked through it. It's a mini novel!

    I did find a copy of John Ciardi's How Does A Poem Mean? After a brief skim, it looked like a good foundation. So I'm adding this to my reading material.

    If anyone is interested, here is a link:
    http://www.csun.edu/~krowlands/Content/Academic_Resources/Poetry_Instruction/ciardi.pdf

    But what was quite a surprising and humorous to me in googling John Ciardi, was I discovered that Isaac Asimov published "Lecherous Limericks". That it was a thing of his!

    I found myself chuckling when I was reading this in an article:

    On the back dust-jacket of A Grossery of Limericks, Asimov explained his talent for writing rude verse:

    ISAAC ASIMOV: “The question I am most frequently asked is ‘Asimov, how do you manage to make up your deliciously crafted limericks?’

    “It’s difficult to find an answer that doesn’t sound immodest since ‘Sheer genius!’ happens to be the truth. It is terrible to have to choose between virtues of honesty and modesty. Generally I choose honesty which is one way (among many) in which I am different from John Ciardi. Not that I mean to impugn John’s character, of course. I am sure he would choose honesty too, if he knew what it was.

    “The last time someone asked him how he managed to compose limericks, John said, ‘What are limericks?’”
    If anyone is curious, more info here (@Commandante Lemming, @Cave Troll):

    http://dangerousminds.net/comments/rude_crude_dude_isaac_asimovs_lecherous_limericks
     
    Wayjor Frippery likes this.
  24. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    And finally, I'm blaming @Oscar Leigh for posting this. I wasn't going to do it...

    I was going to be mature, and try to keep the front of aspiring, serious and deep thinking poet (AKA Scholar of Life). But I swear, since telling myself to stop rhyming, my contrary mind wants to rhyme every free moment it wonders in boredom.

    I had a quick look at @Lorena's link to figure out what format/style or whatever below was. Unfortunately, I wrote first and checked later...

    I think it is a limerick, of some sort...

    Maybe @KokoN or somebody can help. I just sat there and decided I needed desperately to rhyme.

    I apologize if it offends, but I had fun...

    As I said, BLAME Oscar...

    Unlikely Marriage

    In a dark, dark mansion
    that had an expansion
    lived a woman
    with dark, dark hair
    She had a temper
    and could not remember
    why, she married the bear

    The furry, burly creature
    was really just a preacher
    he regretted
    marrying the wife
    She really was a shrew
    stirring her pot of brew
    while, she swept away his life

    The wifey was a witch
    and hubby loved the pitch
    of his voice no less
    Neither cared to hear
    claimed blockage of the ear
    choosing, avoidance was the best

    So in a dark, dark mansion
    cavernous from expansion
    unlikely couple was in luck
    Together they'd rarely be
    In darkness they'd never see
    Until, desires made them want to ....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2016
    Mocheo Timo and Oscar Leigh like this.
  25. KokoN

    KokoN Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    250
    Lol Linny. Nice poem. ;) (Maybe naughty is a more accurate adjective!) Poets don't have to be serious! There are many whimsical poems out there. For example, while T.S. Elliot wrote serious poetry he also wrote more humorous poems as well. It's still helping you master the English language and find new ways to use words!

    Maybe your poem is a limerick, I'm not really sure. Lots of poems don't necessarily have a name. Or even if they do you don't have to know it to enjoy the poem.

    Beowulf is what's referred to as an "epic." The Illiad and the Odyssey by Homer are also epics. There are also some other longer poems that aren't that ridiculously long. An example that I like is The Lady of Shallott. You might find it boring it is rather long, but I like the imagery in it. I plan on giving you more suggestions for poems to read later, maybe tomorrow. I keep thinking of some but I can't remember all the titles off the top of my head, and I have to get ready for work soon.
     
    Oscar Leigh and VynniL like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice