1. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Puppy Support?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Homer Potvin, Mar 18, 2017.

    If my dog were to impregnate the dog next door would I be liable for puppy support? I mean, puppies are a significant expense what with all the food, shots, toys, and soiled rugs. Could they sue me for a paternity test? If the family next door went away for a week could they compel me to babysit the puppies since they're half mine?

    This came up the other day. There was no actual impregnation but I could tell my dog was thinking about it. Give me an idea for a subplot I could pull out of the toolbox later.
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Get your dog fixed. He'll be a better pet, AND no accidental impregnation issues.

    In terms of a plot device - it would probably depend on who was negligent in allowing the two (2!) non-fixed dogs to get together.
     
  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    He's just a 6 month pup set to be neutered in early May. Until then he's humping everything in sight and it really got me wondering if there was a serious recourse if something like should happen. The idea for a little romance blurb set around that jumped into my head immediately, conflated with all the randy things dogs do of course.
     
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I tried Googling, but all I got was discussion of who owns the puppies.
     
  5. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I remember reading a historical novel (Huck Finn? I don't think so, but similar era) and the owner of the male dog got the pick of the litter of the puppies. Like, as payment for stud services.

    Different world back then, pet-wise.
     
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  6. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I tried that too. I (as I often do) just got this picture in my head of a neighbor knocking on my door with a box full of puppies.

    Neighbor: "These are your puppies. You owe me money."
    Me: "Uh, how do you know they're mine?"
    Neighbor: "They look just like him!"
    My dog: "Woof."
    Me: "Er, no they don't!"
    Neighbor: "I have a court order for a paternity test. We'll get to the bottom of this."
    Me: "Are you fucking serious?"
    My dog (as he humps my leg): "Woof."

    And so forth.
     
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  7. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Do you know for a fact that the neighbor's dog isn't fixed? Unless they're breeders it's just as much their responsibility to fix their dog to make sure they don't wind up with unwanted puppies.
     
  8. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    No idea. None of this actually happened. It was a just a quirky "what if" that jumped into my head. Interesting point though.
     
  9. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    It just came to me because I feel like I've heard of this sort of thing before, but the plaintiffs were always breeders. It's not just the cost of the puppies, it the fact that they have no use whatsoever for mutts, they can't breed their dog in the meantime, and I think it can also negatively impact the bloodline of the bitch.

    But just your random dog? Oh hell no, that's on them to spay if they don't want puppies.
     
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  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Animals as we see them (though we are a cut of the same cloth so to speak)
    are ignorant to our laws and customs. So at best it could be a minor charge
    of assault if they were to press charges, followed by a fine of perhaps $100 or
    so.

    Though, it would be nothing more than a verbal warning to control your animal
    from an act that is dictated by nature. Humans are the only animal to criminalize
    such an act performed amongst our own. Though we try to make claim to be above
    other species, even though we are at our core subject to the same problems as those
    of considered lesser intellect that get a free pass. But that is a discussion for another
    time entirely, while there is an ongoing debate about it.

    Ultimately it would result in a punitive fine of property damage at the most.
    Considering pets are considered under law as property and not viable to
    stand in as witness to a proper court and plead their own case.

    My as a species we are convoluted. :p
     
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  11. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    His dog wouldn't be raping the other dog. Dogs don't commit rape (and not just because they don't possess the capacity for mens rea).
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  12. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    http://scienceblogs.com/observations/2011/01/28/reverse-bestiality-when-animal/
    http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/animals-can-be-giant-jerks/

    Stolen from a forum asking a similar question

    Getting consent for sex is a human social construction. In nature, sexual partners are often determined amongst competing males, and has nothing to do with the female's "wishes". You just have to watch some of those nature shows on public TV to see it.

    So in nature it is one long violent sex joke. It is not entirely
    out of the realm of possibility for dogs to commit an action
    that they don't comprehend. Technicality is yes, but
    un-proveable in a court of law.
    Only way to know for sure is to find a way to communicate
    on a significant level. But since pets are property in the eyes
    of the law, this will not be considered rape as we define it.
     
  13. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Do you have an article that mentions a dog forcing intercourse on another dog?
     
  14. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I really don't want to put too much work into this, considering it is based on a
    fictitious event. So feel free to do that bit of legwork yourself if you wish,
    as I am not in the mood to do all the research for the sake of it at the moment. :p

    If you find anything one way or another you will have the answer your looking for.
     
  15. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure I already have the answer, so--yay, we're done!
     
  16. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributor Contributor

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    This is shaping up to be a prime candidate for the debate room.
     
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  17. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Nope. Keep that crossed out! Everything's good, here!
     
  18. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I didn't rape nobody!


    upload_2017-3-19_13-2-33.png
     
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  19. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @Homer Potvin that is good to know. :p

    @BayView
    I have come up with a theory, to support my position on animal v. animal rape.
    While in the the sense of the law may not see it as such, it will with out a doubt
    be sound in logical (if not a crude form).

    That being one of the sensory that can be interpreted by most forms of life: Pain.
    No doubt something that can be expressed by the party (regardless of sentience
    can express, and yes lesser forms can express pain sensory). So by extension of
    looking into pre-modern humans and mammals, this should technically apply.

    The unwanted and unsolicited act of pain/discomfort can signal a sign of physical
    molestation or harm in the form of vocal or visual signs of personal distress.

    There by, if 10,000+ years of our own evolution as a species, the unwilling participant
    to an unwanted sexual encounter would put up a struggle of some sort. Be it by facial
    expression or by physical resistance, or by having a vocal protest. Since a simplistic
    creature as a dog can exhibit signs of distress and pain in expression and vocal protest
    it is under this criteria that we can assume by extension of our own basic knowledge in
    sensory input, that in fact a harmful act has been committed.
    Though we are not as adept in our basic emotional cues, as we once were before we
    had a better (more sophisticated) form of communication, the premise remains the
    same.

    Since we are essentially the same for the most part as our 10,ooo yr predecessors
    on most fundamental levels, that even a primitive version of modern equivalent can
    be an unwilling party to acts of pain, regardless of language and the means to voice it
    in such manner.

    So you see looking at the more primitive, we are not really much more than they are
    in a relative since as we are for all intents and purposes the same. So would be the same
    for the canine equivalent under similar condition and circumstance. But in modern age
    we enslave other creatures other than each-other :p
     

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