With all the topics on character building lately and how to write male/female characters (And the thread about MCs suddenly becoming bi/gay) I think this might be insightful for those who don't have a lot of experience or understanding of being homosexual. --- A few years ago, I was asked to speak in front of high school students and talk about being a homosexual. I declined, saying I had nothing to say. It was true back then but now I'm seeing that perhaps I do have something to say and perhaps it may be useful to some. Homosexuality means: to enjoy the intimacy of the same gender. However, quite unfortunately, being gay is not so simple or literal as a definition and this sexuality touches a large aspect of human life. The sad thing is, being gay means nothing when it comes to how you act or think, how you dress or what you like, your intellect or your beliefs. When you are young, discovering your first feelings of love and sexual interest, it can be quite confusing when you realize you are the only one who's not talking about girls and you notice that there is discrimination toward people attracted to the same gender. You're young, impressionable, and, odds are, you have very little gay adults to influence you. Most will grow up in a hetero-normative home, have heterosexual friends, watch TV and read books with heterosexual characters, and generally never see much of homosexuality. Yes, gay role models do exist but they are a far cry in both numbers and mainstream presence and are even harder for younger audiences to find. The internet makes it easier but the digital world isn't the real world, unfortunately. Discrimination, bullying, the fear of rejection become a normal part of young life and it will become a dominating thought for many teenagers. I was lucky, I went to school that had little tolerance for such things and the students, my friends, were of a like mind when it came to such matters. Many, if not most, are not as fortunate. "As long as they keep it to themselves, they won't have any problems." This is something all gays hear in one form or another. Keep quiet, don't raise a fuss, and you won't feel so bad. And it's true, you will not feel bad: you will feel worse. I said being gay is about having sex with the same gender and that is true but it also entails that you will love another man or woman. Gay sex may be the only real difference between straight and gay but both sexuality are capable of intense love and this is why being gay is so difficult when you are young and just learning about yourself, about being confident, and finding your place in the world. "Why do gays insist on making a spectacle of coming out? There is no closet, we know they're out there." Good, it is good that you know gays exist. But coming out is not about the confetti or the fanfare or to be different. It is a huge integral part of our society because it is not fully accepted to be gay and will remain so as long as there is any discrimination against homosexuals. How many of you, young or old, talk about sex? About what you like in a person? About your relationship triumphs and woes? Most of you will answer yes, you do discuss relationships with others as normal discourse. How many of you have or had relationships you were or are not allowed to talk about? Not because you are gay but because your loved one is someone your family, friends, or community would disapprove of? Perhaps you are dating your best friends brother and you know you are not supposed to? Maybe you got back together with someone who once abused you but now changed his ways and only you see it? Perhaps they're a criminal or perhaps your parents would disapprove because they are not the "correct" ethnicity? Those people, those who love even when they are not supposed to, they are the few who can fully understand what being a homosexual is. The ability to talk openly and freely between friends about your likes and dislikes, to present your lover to your parents and hear them delighted, to hold hands in public without thinking twice whether its safe or whether you're being watched. This is why young men and women come out to their parents and friends everyday. Not because "it's a big deal" but because they are admitting to themselves that they love someone of the same gender and they refuse to hide that fact. Love is too important in a human life to have to shut it away and only let it out when it's "safe". "Oh, look I got engaged!" exclaims Judy. "That's great!" Mary congratulates Judy. "At the wedding, I can introduce you to some people I know. Maybe you'll meet someone?" "Oh, sure I guess." Mary grimaces. "I haven't seen you with anyone in so long. I'm sure you'll find someone," said Judy. What Mary doesn't tell Judy is that she has been for the last year in a happy relationship with another woman named Anna. It's just easier to pretend you haven't found "the one" or that all the guys you meet are "immature" or just "Not good looking enough" than tell the truth and risk losing Judy's friendship or even risk being suddenly treated differently. Mary had to hide that part of her for the last year because saying the truth was too difficult and she knew there would be repercussions. This is what it means to be gay. It means to dance around your words when you're trying to hide your romantic relationships. It means to make sure its safe to be together and lie to your friends and family. It means to have a part of you life, a very integral part, that is not open to even your own parents. Why? Because as long as you keep quiet, there won't be any problems. But there will be. That need to be yourself, to fully be able to communicate, will gnaw at you and can even destroy very good relationships because the other does not want to hide. This is what it means to be gay. It means to hide and lie or admit everything and develop a thick skin. This is why men and women, young or old, come out of the closet. They make a choice on how they want to live; openly or with a filter. "Gay bars are disgusting. Men go there and have sex in the open like animals." One of the most offensive sentences I have ever heard when it comes to sexuality. The gay bar is just like any bar. Men and women go in, order one too many shots, ride the bull and fall on their ass, and wonder how they got home safely the next morning when they're late for work. The gay bar is one of the few options gay people have to socialize with other homosexuals in an open and safe setting. Most young adults will go to one in the first years they are legally allowed to, or before if they got a fake ID, and it isn't about the sex or the booze. Well, maybe a little. But for once in their lives, they are allowed to feel normal. They can sit down, order a drink, wonder whether they have a shot at getting the bartenders number, and smile at the cute guy across the room, and if they're lucky they'll get a smile back. For once, they do not have to hide or explain or even think about it all. Everyone in that room is the same and, for once, they can realize and feel that they are perfectly normal. As we grow up, straight or gay, we become confident and our skin grew much thicker than it had been just a few mere years ago. If someone hates us for no good reason, we can shrug it off and move on with our lives because we found jobs, we found our passions, we found lovers and friends, and, most importantly, we found ourselves. Yes, there is still hardships for adults but it becomes more bearable and easier to deal with when you fully realize you are not alone; that being gay isn't such a big deal, and there are great and amazing people out there who are and can be role models. If only you had known about them before, perhaps high school wouldn't have been so rough. A gay man or woman will always want people to treat them just like they would any other person. However, the biggest discriminator against you is yourself. Not only will it become for a time to censor yourself you may also feel uncomfortable to initiate or carry on conversations that deal with relationships because it means openly discussing your sexuality as if there isn't anything different. And that's a terrible mindset, to have to think ahead of what you're about to say, because your friends or family don't want to hear about the real you. Easier to talk about them, isn't it? This is why the LGTBQ and whatever other labels fall under the queer umbrella accept and defend all people from transgender to cisgender and even, ironically, asexuals. It's not about being gay. It's about not having to check yourself or your surroundings when you talk about love. It's the only real "gay agenda" . We don't want to turn you gay, we just want to create a world where saying "Hey, I'm gay." will be met with "And I like orange juice in my corn flakes. So what?". We want to abolish coming out because it is the proof that discrimination and fear still exist. If there was a pill to make me straight, I would not take it. It would be easier to be straight, I wouldn't have had to figure so much out about myself at such a young age, I wouldn't have had to deal with the uncertainty and the feeling of being alone. I could have biological children, I wouldn't have to worry about my legal and medical rights when it comes to my partner. Maybe I would have had more friends, maybe I would have been allowed to enjoy "gay" things without fear because I could just point to my super hot girlfriend. Being gay is who I am and it ultimately shaped my formative years and many of my experiences in life. To remove that, would be removing so much of me that I would be unrecognizable even to myself. It would be easier to be straight but I'd argue sometimes the easy way is simply running away from your problems and challenges. I'm no quitter. I'll be gay for the rest of my life and I'll be stronger for it. If any of my adopted children end up being gay, I can only hope they won't ever feel they need to come out of the closet. --- I hope everyone understands these are my opinions and experiences. It is not for debate but I am willing to discuss and share as this is meant to help you understand what being homosexual means and not whether it is right or wrong.
I would equally refuse that pill, my friend. I would, even though I know that my life would have been so much easier, the pavement so much smoother beneath my feet. I would refuse that pill. I would take that pill and smash it beneath my heel. I would glare at the person who offered it to me, and a tiny part of me would feel sad because I could see in their face that they made that pill and gave it to me with all of the best intentions in the world, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, they say, and some of the worst atrocities Man has ever deployed were done for the betterment of someone in mind. I would not be who I am now had I taken such a pill. I would not have learned so many important lessons in my life under its thrall. I would have missed out on so much. I would not be me. And frankly, I love me. And I love you, dude. Seriously. I love you. Not in a creepy way or in a romantic way. In a you are always welcome at my house kind of way. Know it, my friend, because that too is one of the small things, the things that are so very important in life that we fail to do, that we learn not to say for fear of discovery. We don't say I love you in ways that are innocent yet heartfelt. We keep them back, and they are so very precious.
It's actually a little fear of mine should anyone discover a "cure for the gay". If it's a pill or just a simple genetic procedure to flip the "men/female" switch I fear people might be forced to take it because then being gay would technically be a choice as an option would then exist. I bet there'd be a lot of pain at both those who change and those who don't. People would try to fix it because they will see it as an issue. Honestly, maybe not knowing what decides sexual orientation is the best thing for now. Maybe one day when no one cares about gay or straight, we can figure it out. And thank you, there are too many youths out there literally out of home because they came out or feel their home is a hostile environment that they have to deal with until they can find a job and get out of. It's probably why so many homeless, and sadly drug users on the street, tend to be gay. I see a lot of them, and it's scary thinking that could have been me.
Well, just in case any of my nerdy brethren missed the point in X-Men: The Last Stand. That film is 100% about this pill and the paradigm that you bring forth. I mean the film doesn't even try to hide the fact. It's about me. It's about you. We are the "mutants", all the "mutants", in that film. They are us. And like many of them, were someone to try to force something like this upon me, woe be unto that person, for I would cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. To bring this back to inspiration for writing, we learn in the story of that film that Magneto is not really a villain. He's a pragmatist. Charles is not really a hero. He's an idealist. Neither has an answer that suffices completely. Together they are stronger and address the matter more fully. I hope for people to be better and more understanding, and I also prepare for them not to.
This was a great post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We still have a long way to go until homosexuality is regarded as normative as heterosexuality, and the same human rights are given to everyone, be it in the West or elsewhere in the world, but it seems more and more battles are won every day in comparison to the battles lost. So I have hope.
I've lost a lot being "gay". Lost a lot of friends, made a lot of enemies. Got beat up, bullied, called harsh names, was judged and labeled. I have zero contact with my entire family, mom and dad both disowned me for it. The last thing my mother said to me was "I don't want to have a queer for a Daughter." My dad actually asked me to choose between being gay and having a family. My aunt didn't want me around my little cousins because she thought I would molest them. That was five years ago. I even had a female role model who I really respected and love tell me that she didn't blame me for being gay. That it was just a disease, a deformity. Like being born with Down syndrome. Her exact words. I cried reading your post @A.M.P. I cried because everything you said is true and so many people don't understand. Don't want to. So thank you. From the bottom of my heart in the most sincere words I can muster; thank you for this. I hope your words reach others with the profound impact they've had on me. I'll echo @Wreybies sentiment on this one. I love you. Thank you for being you.
Wow. I'm not sure how helpful my personal experience can be here - comments I've gotten for being asexual tend to be limited to "that's not real" instead of the full "that's disgusting" that a lot of gay people are used to - but I said something a while back about bullying in general that helped the woman I was talking to on another site, maybe it could work here too?
@Spencer Rose Thank you for sharing and I am sorry my post made you remember sad things. I was fortunate so it's an important reality check to understand and hear from people who's experiences and views are different. It's not all gay pride parades and Adam Lambert's. There's lots of people out there who can use help and support and that there is still a need for people to help others understand the issues.
@Simpson17866, a very insightful post. To it, I would add that not only hasn't our brain's evolution caught up with it, yet, but the fear of the "different" causes emotional reactions that resonate, particularly in our always-connected, meme-and-soundbite-driven world, in a way that impairs that evolution. It's why hyper-sensationalized coming-out stories like Caitlyn Jenner's wind up as the same kind of attraction as the old freakshows that used to travel with the circus and end up hurting the cause of transgendered folks. It's also why "normal" folks still raise hell when someone has the nerve to want to open a residence for a few developmentally disabled adults in their communities (many years ago, a clergyman in one such neighborhood got up in the pulpit on Sunday and preached to his congregation that if they allowed their children to come into contact with intellectually disabled adults, their children would become intellectually disabled).
Maybe this also has something to do with Dunbar's number? I don't know much about it but since the world is much more connected, maybe we also have inadvertently increased our limited amount of empathy and, though probably still under, it causes us to have more stress and less tolerance for others as our brain is trying to limit due to a lack of space?
My guy friends growing up called me a faggot a lot. They liked fighting and I didn't. I liked drawing, reading, video games. I checked out books about big cats and how to make paper airplanes from the library. Sometimes I wish I were gay back then, and that I fought back, and beat the shit out of them, and were able to say "yes, I am a faggot, and don't you forget it." I remember reading somewhere that on the LGBTQQIA+ spectrum (yes that's real, and it gets even more complicated), that the Q represents not only queer/questioning, but being perceived or assumed to be on the spectrum. Maybe I have that wrong, but I resonated when I heard that. I think that my friends mistreating me because of my resistance to mirror their displays of hyper masculinity made me super empathetic toward people on the spectrum. In fact, I've always felt like I'm on it, but just don't know where I fit in. I'm not genderqueer or gender non-conforming in the typical sense. I'm somewhere on the Kinsey Scale near "straight" and far from "gay," but not quite bi/pansexual. I find more "feminine" men semi-attractive, but I don't lust after them. I've painted my nails, worn a little makeup, and tried on women's clothing out of curiosity, but I would never identify as trans*. I have a hunch that the vast majority of people have more of a fluid relationship to gender and sexuality than they've been conditioned to believe, but that the boxes we're often forced into much of our lives make us all repress a great deal of curiosity about such things. Women wear pants now, but men don't wear dresses. Why? Why is it that two women can kiss and cuddle as friends, but two men display affection by jokingly punching each other in the shoulder? Isn't intimacy intimacy? Is it "gay" for two men to sit close on the couch and watch some netflix? I wish I had that kind of intimacy with my guy friends, but most of us as guys are policed by these absurd norms to the point where we stay in a box that oppresses women and LGBT+ people, and oppresses us as well. Loving people is natural. Loving people with things between their legs is natural. Loving people with other things in between their legs is natural. Unlearning heteronormativity (etc) is so important, but it's not on a lot of peoples' priority lists. Not sure where I'm going with this. Just wanted to say that I have a great deal of empathy for people who have been pointlessly and mercilessly persecuted for being who they are or aren't. I find these kinds of oppression to be too disgusting to put into words, and I love hearing stories of survival and resilience because those of you who survive the unfathomable shit people put you through are the coolest people in the world.
Yeah.. I see a new variation of LGTBQ all the time.. I can't even figure out the correct order without thinking of BBQ... I think younger people, mainly teens, have too much of a focus on labels. For the most part, they're still figuring everything out and their feelings will change. If they say they're gay or straight, good for them. Asexual? a-ok. But odds are they aren't 100% gay or 100% straight or whatever. I mean, I'm gay but I still enjoy boobs in pushup bras when they're all perky and round and perfect. It's not sexual I just still appreciate the female body. So, I have a hard time understanding how someone cannot think of someone of the same gender as attractive without it being considered sexual. imo, if a straight man can't tell whether another man is attractive, it means they have no idea whether they look good or not as they must have a base of reference. So.. go ahead, enjoy the male body even if its non-sexual.
I empathize with you. I'm a heterosexual guy, but I've always advocated for LBGT rights and tolerance. It's a shame so much bigotry exists globally towards homosexuality. It is definitely a suppression of individuality. I think it roots in the male dominance humanity has known for most of its history and a dominance that is still very evident today. It wasn't until the earliest 20th century that the USA allowed women the right to vote. Though, in modern day, there has been more tolerance and movement than ever before for the LBGT community. My point is that I believe that the bigotry roots within the insecurities of the bigots and the desire to conform to societal norms out've fear. Social ideals that are millenniums old that have narrowly defined the female and male identities are transforming. The qualities we once associated strictly with masculinity and effeminacy are merging. More people are beginning to identify as non-religious. But still there are those who want to define identity roles for others, whether by product of their religion or their own logic. There are over one billion Islamics and over two billion Christians. Both these religions condemn homosexuality as immoral. My point is I commend you for your pride. Never be discouraged for embracing that you're gay. There is no official consensus of what causes homosexuality. Could it be genetic? Could it be socially developed? I personally don't find the answer important. But I do believe that any human should have the right to identify and express their true sexuality. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of bigotry. But I believe that will change in time. Change is not an easy process for some things.
If your goal is pursuit of happiness, and ultimately you find you would be happier as a straight male than a homosexual... Why not take the pill?
Because easier and happier are not the same thing, and by no means are they mutually inclusive as you would suggest. Many people have "easy" lives and spend all day thinking about how to end that life; others have lives filled with trials and they turn these trials into fulfillment, not agony. My life is very happy now. I live in a great place. I have a great job. My husband is terrific and funny and dynamic and easy on the eye and... uninhibited. Trade that? I think not.
Is that not artificial happiness? Distractions are provided, but you're being exploited for money, taxed for the right to live and have formed some sort of relationship with another human being. Is that happiness?
Everyone is exploited for money. Everyone. Everyone is taxed. Everyone forms relationships with other humans. These are things that describe all people. How does this evince artificiality that isn't an artificiality felt and experienced by all humans?
A woman walks into a hotel, on each floor is a door where she can meet her future husband. First floor, the door has a sign that says "Drunken elderly man, hates women." The woman moves on. Second floor, there is another sign that says "Drunken mid-twenty's man, loves women." The woman moves on. Third floor "Handsome man, monogamous, doesn't want children." The woman moves on. Fourth floor "Perfect man, great job, good looks, wealthy family, loves children. Nothing wrong with him, he just hasn't met you yet to achieve happiness." The woman says "If they keep getting better, the fifth floor must be amazing." And she keeps climbing floors endlessly. This is the "what if" or "what else is" game. You can always wonder if something else that is better exists there or if you're life would have been better if this or that happened. However, the self is created through experience. No one is born programmed to end up a certain way. So, if you change a fundamental part of your self, like your sexuality, you would end up a totally different person as your sexuality defines what sort of experiences you will have (Like the people you meet, the memories you create, the obstacles you overcome and so on). It's not the same as deciding to eat more fiber in the morning rather than not. That won't affect every part of your life like your sexuality does. So, you would never be able to calculate whether you'd be happier this way or that way as that would entail knowing things that haven't happened to you and are therefore unknowable variables. And before you say "But the pill would only make you straight, you'd keep everything you've experienced" that alone has a dozen implications. One, taking the pill means you're giving up on yourself and that you think of your sexuality as a negative part of yourself. It would be the equivalent of saying "White males have better lives than non-white males and women of color or white so all women should become men." which would be a huge affront to pretty much every female human and insanely racist. People will stop eating certain foods or doing actions that cause harm because they wish to improve their lives. Being a woman is not negative in of itself like eating fifty candy bars a day is. Being gay is not negative in the way of drinking three bottles of vodka a day. One is a simple part of you that harms because of others while the latter harms you because of itself. Artificial happiness is caused through drug usage (Both medical and recreational) to fix mood issues. It's fake, but it's better than constant depression. Depending on which side of philosophy you stand on, happiness can be achieved through a modicum of ways that are unique to each individual. I have a very objectivist and Nietzschean way to attain happiness as those ideals are in line with my own wants and needs and my beliefs on the world. For some, it's a simple as raising a loving and happy family. They can die knowing they got their satisfaction from life through it. Others need to climb mountains and bungee jump off em or take as much love as they can from the public. And, like others said, straights and gays get taxed in pretty much all 200-ish countries in the world. This isn't a government vs. us thread, it's about the meaning of being gay and having to "come out".
I respect your opnion. Nobody has a right to tell you how to live. Certainly not certain hypocritical religious fanatics. Maybe you should write a book about this and your experience, a lot of other homosexuals could relate and it would also educate those who are not homosexual. I was told a story by John Barrowman in his live show, in summary he decided to get mairred the day it was legalised (possibly in America as he already had a civil ceremony) so he got married. He thought they'd be a lot of people there, young people. He told us that there were people in their 80s or around that age (I'm sorry I can't remember the age or exact country) and they told him that they never thought they'd be able to get married in their life time. This story moved me and I still find it quite sad and also feel so happy for them that finally they can get married. I have a lot of respect for homosexuals realising all the negativity directed towards them, they deal with a lot of rubbish and good on you for not letting it change who you are.
I really enjoyed reading that. For some reasons I've always had an interest and connection to people experiencing problems with same sex attraction, despite being a guy only interested in women myself. Being in Sydney the gay culture is strong, loud and proud. My old boss was gay and we got along very well, and I had no trouble being his plus 1 to the opening night of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Film Festival one year. People were free to assume what they wanted. I've also been hit on a fair amount. At first being hit on by gay men was very un-nerving, but now I'm mature enough to understand the balls it takes and politely decline without taking offense. Hey, at least someone thought I was good looking enough to approach (are you listening, women?). Gay bars still un-nerve me, mainly because I feel that I'm encroaching on other people's space, understanding that the point is a safe and trusting environment. Or maybe it's my own insecurities still dormant under the surface. I've had two times where I could not share my love for someone openly. The first time when it was a taboo relationship, which I won't get into, and then when I was in love with my best friend and knew that if she ever found out it would kill our closeness. I was considered family, but in the end she found out and never spoke to me again. Something that I've been trying to explore in my work has been the concept that often people victimize simply to avoid being victimized. This can be the main reason for some people to persecute others. Straight men take great offense at being mistaken for gay, often (in my opinion) because they fear the retribution from society they witness gay people suffering, and in turn lash out at gay people to demonstrate that they are not, indeed, gay. There have been many effeminate straight guys bashed because of stereotyping of what gay looks like. On a side note, in a documentary with Stephen Fry where he explores the acceptance (or lack of) of gay culture in various countries, he stated to one African anti-gay zealot that 'buggery' had nothing to do with it. that it was simply about intimacy. The sex can come into it, but not for everyone. Historically, the 'indecency' of male gay relationships has been about buggery. So it's interesting how now young macho men that are anti-gay are commonly pressuring girls into anal sex, yet find this 'offensive' if two men do it. WTF? It's like the idiot recently here in Australia that attacked a Muslim girl for wearing a headscarf, while he was wearing a baseball cap. Some people just don't get it. Sometimes I still like to boast that I made out with my girlfriend in a lesbian bar. I felt like the outsider, and it was quite strange. We'll get to a point where people won't even need to question if they would take the pill and where a man can approach another man without fear, and be politely rejected instead of beaten up. Anyway, as the comedian Steve Hughes put it: gay men aren't tough? They fuck other men!
