1. Gammer
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    Gammer Active Member

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    I'm Getting Tired of Batman

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Gammer, Dec 11, 2011.

    Oh yeah I went there, but bare with me.

    I'm an avid comic book fan, love Marvel and DC. Most superheroes I really like for various reasons, but lately I've just been getting Batman-fatigue.

    In the DC mythos, there are countless superheroes and storylines that deserve attention. Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Steel, Static, Green Arrow, Orion, Plastic Man, etc...all these heroes with so many villains and storylines all worthy of being told.

    Yet all I hear is "more Batman, more Batman." Batman this, Batman that. Batman video games, Batman movies, Batman tv shows, Batman comics. And the absolute worst part is, because of the recent Nolan movies, now most of the people I talk to now expect EVERY superhero to be "dark and gritty" because that some equals good.

    It's extremely frustrating since these are the same people who never have picked up a comic or cared about any Batman story before the Nolan movies. They were aware of the character, yes, but they have never really read any comic books about him or any other superhero.

    But other comic fans are just as annoying to me. Its always "Batman is so much better! He actually uses his brain and can beat anybody!" blah blah blah. UGH....

    How much more Batman related stuff is needed??
     
  2. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    I agree, enough is enough. I love Batman, but I hated The Dark Knight (yeah, you heard me), and from what I've seen and heard of Dark Knight Rises, it doesn't sound good. It was bad enough that the Joker didn't feel anything like he does in the comics (isn't the Joker supposed to be fun?), but the villain in DKR is even worse. This time they didn't even try to make him look anything like in the comics. The worst part is it wouldn't even take much. Batman's been around since the 1940s, but clearly it's ok to throw all the lore out the window just because you're making a new movie. Screw fans, bring on the money! Sigh...

    I do have some hopes, though. Superman: Man of Steel will be out next summer, and it's also made by Nolan. The people behind Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City have also said they are very interested in making a Superman-game next, so who knows? Maybe in two or three years, Batman is just a memory, and we'll make a new post saying enough with all the Superman-stuff. :) (at least if you ignore the SpikeTV Video Game Awards, where the Joker thanked people while holding a script for Arkham World, and don't forget Arkham City certainly leaves room for a sequel.)

    On top of that, there are plenty of rumors about a Booster Gold tv-series airing next year. I know they made a pilot for both Aquaman (the actor showed up later as Green Arrow in Smallville) and Wonder Woman (surprisingly fun), but both were cancelled. Chances are Booster Gold will be cancelled too, but who knows?

    What annoys me is that the DC Universe is much bigger than Superman and Batman. Smallville is the longest continously running sci-fi series of all time (beating StarGate SG-1 with a few hours), and Green Arrow was a regular for several seasons. Even Mia (aka Speedy, aka his trusty sidekick) showed up in an episode or two, and Green Arrow even got to fight one of "his own" villains instead of just superman villains. Even so, now that Smallville is over, Green Arrow is forgotten already. Despise the fact he's very much the same as Batman (playboy millionaire, orphant, uses loads of different arrows (instead of gadgets), and even had his own Arrowcar, Arrowcave and so on just to make fun of Batman.) So why not go with the Emerald Archer instead? And where's Wonder Woman? She was one of the holy trinity in the Justice Leage, yet she's more or less forgotten. She has her comics, and yes, they are awesome. But outside comics? Wonder Who? Sigh...
     
  3. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake Contributing Member

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    Or you could read an actual book! There ar lots of em. I guarantee you will not get bored there.
     
  4. Gammer
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    Gammer Active Member

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    I did enjoy Dark Knight and it didn't mind the changes. Comic Books as whole are very adaptable and versatile. I mean compare the orginal Batman in 1939 to the one today. Compare the original Superman to the one now. They change and develop all depending on the writer at the time, while keeping the same core. So Nolan's changes didn't bother me.

    I don't think Batman will ever be forgotten and I don't want him to be forgotten, I just want the character to be put aside for now and focus on the countless other DC heroes who seemed to have been left in the dust. I mean Batman has successful video games, movies and tv shows. I just feel like its time for studios to give that same time and attention to other superheroes.

    Superman is a good first step because I feel like he gets the worst unnecessary hate. People keep saying they can't relate to him and he's too powerful or he's muscle bond oaf who can be killed by a rock, and some other crap like that. They forget that Superman was the very first superhero. And that the only powers he really uses are his strength, speed, flight, and heat vision. Everything else is either in a throw away joke or just forgotten about. He's also very smart. In several comic books he's built several robots to take care of the Fortress of Soltiude while he's gone. And when he was transported to a planet near a red sun, making him without his powers, he found and repaired a car, tamed some wild wolfs and forged a sword with objects he found. Superman has so much potential for great stories but people just don't see it
     
  5. Ross M Kitson
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    Ross M Kitson Member

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    More of a marvel boy myself, but over thirty or so years I've seen enough reboots to agree with you. For me Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns won it for me (quite liked Killing Joke too, but might have been the art that biased me). That'd be a great film (to screw up the franchise). Always liked John Wagner when he wrote Dredd so one day think I'll dig out his Batman work.
    Grittiness? It's a sign of the times. X-men probably kicked it Off in the early eighties with Wolverine (at least in mainstream), then there was a surge in mature readers comics and Alan Moore taking on Swamp Thing. The mass Market wants grittiness and 'realism' and the films just mirror that trend in comics. Sort of gone that way in fantasy genre too after George RR Martin's success.
    Anyhow I'm more excited about The Avengers...
     
  6. Gammer
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    Gammer Active Member

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    I'm very excited about the Avengers too. It's a huge gamble on Marvel's part but I really hope it does well. The trailer looked really cool.

    Grittiness is fine with me, but saying that every hero or piece of fiction needs to dark and gritty is just silly. For one, dark and gritty does not fit every character. I cannot imagine a dark and brooding Superman or Flash for example. Spider-Man is a good mixture of light and dark. Bad stuff happens to him but he's always ready with a quip or some sarcastic remark to help him cope. He angst too, but never gives in to his despair.

    Bottom line I guess is grittiness and realism might but what the audience wants, but it doesn't always work.
     
  7. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    I have 500+ books in my library so far, and I've read most of them. Some several times. I even have the novelization of Tim Burton's Batman-movie, the novelization of Infinite Crisis and a book with Wonder Woman. :) And btw, your username is ProphetSnake, so how come your avatar is a turtle? :p

    I didn't mean Batman would literally be forgotten. I just mean people won't care much about his movies anymore. Look at Lord of the Rings and Star Wars, for instance. People slept outsidet the cinema just to get tickets, and people have changed their names to some of the characters in those movies. There's a Doctor Batman here in Norway, and my sister had a friend once who changed his last name to Skywalker. But where are those fans now? The movies are gathering dust (except among the hardcore fans). The same will happen to Batman just months after the next big thing replace him. For that matter, how many people are talking about Batman anyway anymore? Dark Knight was rated the best movie ever made by a lot of people, and not it's forgotten.

    And as for Superman, I recommend you read the New 52 version of him. (DC restarted all their franchises recently and changed most of them, henche the name New 52.) Many of them got new origins, including Superman, Batman (small changes, but still) and Wonder Woman. This version of Superman is an orphant, and he never married Lois Lane. The stories focus more on him as an alien and how he deals with living among strangers (and how they deal with him), and stuff like that. But the interesting part is he isn't invulnerable in this version. Or at least not at first. He can get hurt. It takes a lot, but it's possible. It makes for a much more interesting Superman, in my opinion. No need for kryptonite. Dropping a few buildings on him should do the trick. ;)
     
  8. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I never really had a problem with the old bat (I went there, Batty-man). If people like it, then what's the harm?

    I think they like him because he's the most relateable hero and people like dark, gritty guys with an angsty tragic past being the reason for his heroics. What do the other super characters have on him?

    Daredevil- I went blind for unrelated reasons and now I can kick ass. Oh, my dad got killed by a lame-o guy with a stupid tattoo on his forehead. Wow.
    Superman- I'm nigh invincible and my planet, thousands of lightyears away went boom when I was a baby. Oh, and did I mention that I'm so powerful I can literally stand against every military might on the planet and get through them all without a scratch? Yeah, I can totally do that.
    Spiderman- Woo! I got bitten by a radioactive spider! Watch as I use my webbing to swing myself all over NYC! Oh, and I ANGST double-time!
    Hulk- I turn into a giant, green monster when I get angry.

    Batman...there's just something...Gothic about him. <is shot for the lame pun on "Gotham City">

    He's gritty, uses his anger as a means to keep going, yet realizes he's just a normal person. What does he do? He creates gadgets to help him fight the bad guys.
     
  9. Ross M Kitson
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    Hi Gammer. Yeah Avengers is a well calculated gamble. Iron Man was box office gold both times, and the Cap movie was splendid. Thor my kids loved so they'd have to really screw it up to loose out. Think they are trying for the Ultimate style, which I never really read. I grew up with Marvel pocketbooks in the late 70s early 80s so have a fondness for the totally non-gritty sixties FF, Avengers and Spiderman. Saying that I like Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Garth Ennis and Bryan Talbot - it all depends on your mood I suppose.
    Cheers, Ross



     
  10. Prophetsnake
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    Why wouldn't it be?


    In any case, I was thinking more along the lines of "Moby Dick" or something by Theodore Sturgeon at the very least.
     
  11. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    This might sounds rude, but I think people love Batman, Superman, X-Men, Spider-man and those because they don't know any better and are afraid to think outside the box. All those characters are the good, old tried-and-tested. They work. They sell. We could easily have an Emerald Archer Rising instead of Dark Knight Rises, and it could just as dark and gritty. It could actually be a lot better in many ways. But what's the point? People know Batman, and Batmand and Green Arrow are really not that different. So instead of try a new character people don'tk now, they simply make another movie with a character people do know and are guaranteed to sell a lot more. Why do you think there are so many Superman-movies and tv-series, and yet not a single Supergirl or Superboy-movie or series? both of them have been around in the comic books for a long time, and Supergirl showed up frequently in Smallville. (even Superboy made an apperance.) But they are not Superman. They are more or less the same character, but why would anyone give a young girl a try when they have a grown man they all know and love?

    And take that Booster Gold tv-series I mentioned. I really hope it will turn out to not only be real, but also a success. But I kinda doubt it, to be honest. Not the 'being real' part, but that it will be a success. Launching a new hero is difficult, and Booster is an idiot. Really, he was a successful athlete in the future, lost his job, became a security guard, got bored, stole a lot of equipment and went back to our time to become a celebrity. A rich celebrity. He doesn't have any superpowers, but he uses all the gadgets he stole to gain superpowers here, and heroes are big business. The problem is even the other heroes hate him and mock him, and with good reason. He's too arrogant and obnoxious. Sure, he did change over time like any other person, and his job changed quite a bit in infinite crisis. Without spoiling that awesome series. Still, it's a new character people don't know (one episode on Smallville doesn't count, no matter how awesome it was), so why give him a chance when there are so many other series out there worth watching? There's a reason series like The Cape and No Ordinary Family failed. When even Batman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman failed to launch their tv-series, why would someone like Booster Gold make it?

    (note: Before Smallville, they planned a series called Bruce Wayne. It was never made due to the Nolal-movies. One Batman at a time is enough. That's why we had Green Arrow on Smallville instead of Batman in the first place. Having Batman on Smallville and a different Batman in the movies would be too confusing.)

    (note 2: They also planned a series called Gotham High. It would be a highschool-drama thing with people like Batman, Catwoman, Joker, Penguin, Two-Face and so on. It would have been awesome, but thanks to Batman Begins and Dark Knight, it was never made.)

    Actually I have Moby Dick in my collection, along with the complete Sherlock Holmes and Edgar Allan Poe. ;) Not to mention most Dune-books by Frank Herbert. I don't have any Jane Austen, but I do have "Sense and sensibility and sea-monsters". Good enough? :p On top of that, I have a Dragonlance-book called The Great White Wyrm. It's fantasy, based heavily on Moby Dick. ;)

    (and to brag, there's Pet Sematary by Stephen King, first edition and Servant of the bones by Anne Rice. First editon, first print and signed.) :D
     
  12. Prophetsnake
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    Well, i was addressing the fella who said he was bored. I simply feel that if someone is bored with reading, they are reading the wrong thing.
     
  13. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    @ WriterDude-

    Not rude to me, because I don't read the Batman stuff.

    But I can see what you're trying to say. Marvel and DC have a plethora of superheroes they can explore, yet they always seem to release movies about the major heroes.

    Supergirl and Spidergirl seem very interesting. Sadly the only female superhero they explore is Wonderwoman.
     
  14. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    Since when did they explore Wonder Woman in the movies and tv-series? ;) (yes, there was one tv-series a long time ago, but the less said about that one the better.) :D Supergirl did have her own movie, but it wasn't any good.

    I think another problem is they have explored other characters than the usual ones in movies before. Daredevil had his movie, but starring Ben Affleck. That's a big warning sign right there. :p Elektra had her spin-off movie, and I thought it came out pretty well. But she didn't feel like a superheroine, but more an action star. Green Lantern finally got his 15 minutes of fame, but with all that CGI and an underwhelming "boss fight" in the end, it wasn't any good. I still liked it, but only as in it was fun to watch, but quickly forgotten. That's not what Green Lantern should be all about. He's one of the most powerful superheroes in the entire known universe, so he should be able to beat Superman if he had to.

    All is not lost, though. The Deadpool-movie is still in the works, last I heard. It won't have anything to do with X-Men (though Ryan Reynolds still stars), so if they get it right, it could be interesting. And don't forget The Avengers. I have no hopes for that one (far too many heroes), but they are considering a movie with Nick Fury. (which also had his own movie, starring... David Hasselfhof. Ugh... we can't hassle the Hoff, but we can nick the fury.) :D The point is they usually only make movies based on the usual ones for a reason, but they will eventually have to release movies about someone else.
     
  15. Gigi_GNR
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    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

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    For me it hasn't reached breaking point yet. The Nolanverse movies are incredible, and it only serves that people would want more, but I don't see it being a problem -- Batman's my favorite superhero, after all. :p
     
  16. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    So how many heroes and villains do you know, Gigi? ;)
     
  17. Ross M Kitson
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    Link's statement about only releasing movies about the popular heroes is (I presume) intentionally obvious. The most recent run of Marvel films follows a steady popularity course- x-men and spiderman, then hulk and iron man. The first iron man went mega at the box office (derservedly as Robert Downie JR is great), which then prompted the revision of Ang Lee's Hulk. Then Xmen spin-off (which the first class was the better of the pair I thought), then Thor, Cap and inevitably the Avengers. I forgot the FF, Daredevil which were OK (I like the Kirby Galactus). As much fun as minor league Marvel may be (Doctor Strange, Defenders, Alpha Flight, that sort of stuff) you can understand the caution of slinging big money behind it. DC trail a bit because the heroes, although around longer in many cases, aren't as bankable, beyond Superman and Batman. A JLA film might be fun, or a Teen Titans, but will they be box office gold?
    I think the thing that irritates fans is that we all have our favourite runs of the comics and things we want to see done. But the directors are making a film or, at most, three. They can't possibly emulate the comics the way we love them.
    It's not just superhero comics that suffer- Alan Moore films generally suck (Watchmen was a good try but League of Extra... and V for Vendetta didn't do it for me). Sin City was a love or hate, 300 was OK... in fact the best I saw was Kick Ass.
    And dont get me going on Judge Dredd...
    So in my humble opinion films will only ever be a bit of a laugh in seeing a comic you like realised past the cartoon form. I go see them with my kids (well the 12 ones) and I love the comics all the more.
    Ross
    (praying they never put Sandman on the big screen)
    (The Boys... Now that would be worth seeing....)
     
  18. Snoopingaround
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    Snoopingaround Banned

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    Well, in regards to why Batman seems to be getting so much extra attention, movies, spin-offs, animated series, etc., is probably because that people recognize he does not have any superpowers. I think that's one big reason, maybe there are more. So, at some level, there is a greater ability to empathize with the character and put yourself in his shoes so to speak. That extra level to appeal to that aspect of Batman, who is a dude without any superpowers battling against huge odds, might be why he is a more popular character than alot of the other superheroes.
     

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