Immortality or mortality? Make your decision!

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Torana, May 10, 2009.

  1. Hsnodgrass

    Hsnodgrass New Member

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    I'd pick immortality. Not because I really want to live forever but because I really would love to watch as the sun went supernova from the perspective of Earths surface. That would be a trip.
     
  2. zorell

    zorell New Member

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    I would choose mortality. There is no thrill in life when Death is not an option. Also, we humans are built to learn to survive...how can you learn from your mistakes if the consequences are never dire enough to make repeating them unattractive?
     
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Sorry, you'll have to settle for some other star from a similar distance. Our sun isn't one that will end that way. But even if it were, you wouldn't experience a thing. The wavefront would travel faster than a nerve impulse. Your brain would be flash-incinerated before you could see the first light of the explosion.
     
  4. CDRW

    CDRW Contributor Contributor

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    Definitely mortality, but only because I'm a traitor to the mortal cause. :p

    See it works like this: I'm a religious person, so for me it boils down to a choice between. 1. Artificial immortality with all of the problems inherent therein. 2. Afterlife immortality, including all of the bonuses with the added benefit of heaven.

    And don't give me any of that "heaven would be boring" crap. A God who has the means and motivation to create an earth as a test, dispense individual and fair judgement, and provide immortality and housing to a potentially infinite number of people is also going to be capable of providing meaningful work and entertainment to said people.

    But assuming no God, I would choose immortality.

    Here's some of my thoughts:

    1. "Natural" does not mean "good," or even "beneficial."

    2. For a civilization that has achieved immortality space travel and terraforming are not going to be an insurmountable challenge.

    3. Knowledge is not tied to the mortal cycle. We are not going to suddenly stop teaching others just because we can't die anymore. Knowledge does not gain value by being passed on anyway, it gains value by being used.

    4. For most people threat of death is not their primary motivation for doing things. That used to be the case, but for the developed world that motivation has been moved to comfort. We will always want to be comfortable. The people who need threat of death to make their life feel meaningful are viewed as crazy and stupid even now. We learn from our mistakes all the time without dying.

    5. For a civilization that has achieved immortality you are not going to watch all of your friends and family die so that argument carries no weight.

    6. If it is only one person who has the immortality coping with the death of friends and loved ones won't be a problem for a healthy individual. Those things happen anyway and we still cope. Quite frankly, we just go out and get new ones, crass as that sounds. The only difference is that it'll happen more, but even then it won't happen more often. You will have plenty of time to get over your grief. It's not like everyone and everything you know will be gone in the blink of an eye.

    7. You wouldn't be able to learn everything because the brain just isn't capable of holding an infinite amount of knowledge, so forget becoming bored that way.

    8. We do not need to have our current comforts, values, or beliefs to be happy. Roman citizens were happy under a government that was based on many values incompatible with modern society, hermits separate themselves from society and still live a happy life, and as politically incorrect as it is to say, there were slaves who were happy with their lot in life. With examples like those, why wouldn't we be able to adapt to the trials of a long life? Is it because it's unnatural? That's not exactly different from any of the other influences we've been adapting to since the first farm was created.
     
  5. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    stuck in this poor, benighted world that humankind has f'd up in every way possible, there's no way i want to be immortal!

    i'm ready to go right now, thank you.......................
     
  6. KP Williams

    KP Williams Active Member

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    No offense, but this kind of pessimism really gets on my nerves. It's like you're intentionally ignoring all the good things about life and trying to gather all of the bad things around you. It can't be a very pleasant mindset.
     
  7. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    I agree. It's easy to pick out the things that are wrong with the world today if that's all that you're looking for. Why not look for things to enjoy instead? It's much more fun.
     
  8. Unsavory

    Unsavory Active Member

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    Immortality seems illogical to me. Even though I could probably enjoy living for a few thousand years, at some point down the road, the Earth will probably become uninhabitable, at least for humans. Humanity won't go on forever, and then what? I'm stuck on a burning rock by myself counting pebbles. Besides, knowing that I'll never die under any circumstances would be oddly suffocating. I don't want to be permanently stuck with something that huge.
     
  9. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    no, it's not pleasant at all... but as a serious, full time practicing philosopher with more than 7 decades spent among this supposed 'superior' species, i can't in all good conscience, or in blatant contradiction to my intelligence and all that i observe/experience in my travels, studies and having lived among all manner of peoples on this planet, see humankind any other way...

    of course i don't ignore the bits of good done here and there, now and then, but as a philosopher, i can't and don't just focus on those 'sugary sprinkles' that embellish the dung heaps found everywhere... i must force myself to see all that goes on in this human-made world... and believe me, there's much, much more bad going on here, than good...

    most only pay attention to what's nearby, while my mind/heart/soul is with those who suffer in so many parts of africa, in sri lanka and bangladesh, in palestine and iraq, and yes, even in the ghettos, backrooms and bedrooms of our most [so-called] 'civilized' nations... all that those victims of violence, greed-driven aggression and outright evil suffer, i feel... which is why i'd leave this world happily, this very moment...

    unfortunately, something still seems to want me to stay in it, so while i'm stuck here, all i can do is offer what little bits of help i can, to those who are in need that i can reach... which is why i run the donation center i started here on this tiny little island in the middle of nowhere... and why i do all the other stuff my writing gift has enabled me to do for those who can't... but i don't have to like being here... and i can't lie about it to myself or to anyone else...

    'nuff said... love and hugs, maia
     
  10. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    I'm glad I'm not a philosopher, then. I'd rather be aware of the bad and focus on the good than be aware of the good and constantly dwell on the bad.
     
  11. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    guess that's why there aren't many practicing philosophers around these days...
     
  12. lordofhats

    lordofhats New Member

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    That's a rather shortsighted view of a philosopher. Philosophers focus on more than just the bad. Some do, others focus on other things.

    Of course, then again, modern academic philosophy has become so detached from reality that nothing it produces is really worth the paper it's printed on anymore...

    As for immortality vs mortality: On this world, though cool sounding, I'd think immortality would get "old" really fast. I mean, it's not like anything really changes around here over the centuries XD. We just get some new wallpaper every era or so. Besides, to continue going while the people you know grow old and pass on, that sort of sucks.
     
  13. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    How could you ever run out of things to experience and learn? Also, the world and the universe do change, and our understanding of how they operate evolves as well.

    Of course there is sorrow in watching people you love grow old and die, but you also get to meet so many new people.

    I think one lesson you would learn fairly early would be to learn from the past, but to live in the moment. There is unlimited beauty to see, and potential to strive for.

    How's that for a philosophy?
     
  14. madhoca

    madhoca Contributor Contributor

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    Look, if we all knew we were immortal we'd just loll about doing nothing, eating junk food and smoking, drinking, etc. There wouldn't even be a decent DVD to watch, book to read, or performance to see because hey, why bother now, we'll do it, like, later... so not many people would bother. Think eternal teenage syndrome. They're never going to die, right?
    Life would be one long yawn. Please keep me mortal, so I can cherish and use my time well in this beautiful, yes beautiful in spite of everything, world.
     
  15. Henry The Purple

    Henry The Purple Active Member

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    That's all well and good (no pun intended!), but you should bear in mind that good and evil do NOT exist in equal amounts...at least not here on Earth. Here, evil reigns. Anyway, I would prefer to dwell on the bad than the good...those living in first-world countries who feel remorse and sadness for those suffering from starvation in poorer countries are much more likely to help them than those who stuff themselves in Burger King without a care in the world. Empathy aint no walk in the park.

    On topic...mortality ftw, but it should be noted that the soul is immortal, so whether you like it or not, you're going to be sticking around for quite some time. ;)
     
  16. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    That's some very nice philosophy, Cog. :) And I agree...I think if you were around forever, that would just give you more opportunity to experience things and learn from them. The world is constantly changing, so how could you stop finding things to learn from? No way...

    How do you know that? Maybe we would just constantly look for ways to better ourselves. There are people who believe in eternal life after death...that doesn't stop them from trying to be productive and developing their talents...

    I try very hard to help people less fortunate than I am...I don't have to constantly dwell on the bad in the world and look at the darkness to be able to care about people who are worse off than me. You don't have to constantly be looking at the depressing side of things to care about other people.

    I don't think that everyone believes that the soul is immortal..........
     
  17. Henry The Purple

    Henry The Purple Active Member

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    To empathise with a suffering person, you have to feel their pain. You don't have to do it all the time, but without objectively seeing the ambundance of evil in the world, you won't be able to battle it. Suffering, whether you like it or not, is a very depressing affair...

    And I'm not asking them to...
     
  18. CDRW

    CDRW Contributor Contributor

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    Really? How did you measure that? Did you use english or metric units? Were you finally able to pin down what's good and what's evil? Was this a double-blind study?
     
  19. Henry The Purple

    Henry The Purple Active Member

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    No, I used a thermometer...
     
  20. CDRW

    CDRW Contributor Contributor

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    Well then I'm going to have to relegate that to the realm of opinion and not the fact you presented it as.
     
  21. madhoca

    madhoca Contributor Contributor

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    I'm truly starting to feel that many of us would be better writers and people if we were more positive and focussed on the good side of things. You are all so negative. I've had a hell of a lot of bad things happen to me, but even though **** happens there's good stuff too.

    I know you'll leap on me for this, but actually a positive spiritual perspective helps. Lighten up, people, we only live once and then you exit the world. That's to make room for someone else. Read more Terry Pratchett, and remember that he's getting on with things even though he's got onset Alzheimer's. He can still laugh.
     
  22. Henry The Purple

    Henry The Purple Active Member

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    Most people who know me would attest to my upbeat and optimistic personality...I'm merely saying there is no point in sugar-coating the sufferings and evils of the world.

    It is a fact. Just open a newspaper...
     
  23. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    You can not sugar-coating sad things in the world without choosing to dwell on it. Which is what was being discussed.

    Newspapers are written by people. People with opinions.

    Also, newspapers need to sell. So why would they write stories about happy people doing happy things when they could write about horribly depressing tragedies that grab people's attention?
     
  24. madhoca

    madhoca Contributor Contributor

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    No point if it makes everyone just ignore them.

    But it is totally pointless to ruin your life and the lives of people around you by being doom-laden about everything. If the 'evils' of the world concern you (I speak generally), go and do some charity/political/volunteer work, whatever. Do something active to help. Or write great articles or books to raise awareness. There's plenty of things you can do.

    OR maybe you're just busy trying to motivate your fellow workers or bring up your children as best you can. That's great too. But don't become an introverted pessimist. That's such a waste of life.

    P.S. *remembers OP* That's why most people couldn't hack being immortal.
     
  25. CDRW

    CDRW Contributor Contributor

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    Assumption #1. Good and Evil are quantifiable

    Assumption #2. Good and Evil are sufficiently defined to measure.

    Assumption #3. Newspapers are privy to all the information.

    Assumption #4. Newspapers divulge all the information they are privy to.

    Assumption #5. Newspapers are unbiased.

    Assumption #6 Newspapers take care to balance their articles to make them representative of the balance between Good and Evil.


    Let me ask you this. How many dollars do you have to give a homeless man before it balances out one murder?
     

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