1. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    In an e-book, can you include a Youtube link to the song that was playing at the

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Lotgrinder, Mar 29, 2013.

    time of your story...

    Example...

    "Then, it happened, I hear the opening synth for "Pinion" which eventually leads into the song "Terrible lie" and my hero Trent Reznor is standing behind a gray curtain that's been draped down the front of the stage. I can see the outline of his body. Oh my God, he's actually standing with his arms spread out like he's been nailed to a cross. As the intro builds to a head, the curtain is raised and the man that can describe any emotion I may be having better than I can screams..

    "Hey God, why are you doing this to me? Am I not living up to what I'm supposed to be?"
     
  2. idle
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    idle Active Member

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    Are you asking whether it can be done in the technical sense, or whether it is a good idea?

    Technically, yes, I think it would be possible, at least epub is based on html so you should be able to include any link.

    Is it allowed? Now, linking to someone else's song could be a bit problematic. Maybe not, I don't want to go guessing about this, but you should be sure before you do anything like that.

    Is it a good idea? I don't think so, for several reasons. Firstly, not everyone reads their books on computers or tablets. E-book readers are not ready to play videos, some don't even have any internet connection, so reaching that music file would be too complicated. Secondly, the youtube links change from time to time, a video is taken down, another one appears, and you don't have any control over that so you might end up with a link that doesn't work anymore. Sure, you can regularly check it and then replace the e-book with another version, but are you going to notify all previous buyers about the change?
     
  3. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It's true that if you used the song like that in your books - and let's assume you publish your book and you earn profit from it - then you'd run into copyright issues and permission of use. These artists can sue you because you're using their song without permission for commercial purposes. So you'd have to consult a literary/music lawyer and probably pay these artists to use their song in your book, which is an added factor for publishers NOT to buy your book, or if they buy your book, then maybe to NOT use the music.

    Say you use the music, you get permission and you pay the artists and publishers are all right with that, you'd still need a site that's more reliable than youtube. It's true, you don't want a reader to go through the link just to see "Sorry, this video has been taken down by XYZ".

    I'm reading a non-fiction book on violence that has a number of links within the ebook, but that's non-fiction and it's about how people fight, so it makes sense to have these links to show readers. I haven't gone through to any of the sites yet so no idea if any would be from youtube.

    For fiction, however, it's probably too much hassle just for the effect - but, if you're self-publishing and you find a reliable music site that's not youtube, where you know the videos won't be taken down periodically, I don't see why not. I think it's quite a fun idea and it's the way the reading experience is changing thanks to digital books. Most people nowadays have internet on their phones, and many people read on their iPads and iPhones, not only e-readers.

    I'd say your music links should be elements that ADD to the story, but they cannot be essential to the story - so if the reader skips over them for lack of internet, their reading experience and understanding of your story won't be hampered and they won't have to stop reading just so they can get home and listen to the silly video. See it as a bonus readers can get if they happen to have internet, and in that case I think it could be kinda fun.
     
  4. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    Unless you have the express and written permission of the copyright owner of the song and/or video you want to include in your book, you can't include any links to it. The video itself is in violation of DMCA rules and will most likely be taken down in time. Unless the video is in the artist's/producer's channel or it has a disclaimer of any rights to it it is considered illegal.

    So to sum it up no, you shouldn't include it; no, it is a bad idea and yes, you will have a world of problems if you include it in the published material.
     
  5. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    listen to mckk and xatron... it's not a good idea for all of those reasons...
     
  6. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    Next Question:

    Can you place lyrics from a song in your book?

    Example...

    "Then, it happened, I hear the opening synth for "Pinion" which eventually leads into the song "Terrible lie" and my hero Trent Reznor is standing behind a gray curtain that's been draped down the front of the stage. I can see the outline of his body. Oh my God, he's actually standing with his arms spread out like he's been nailed to a cross. As the intro builds to a head, the curtain is raised and the man that can describe any emotion I may be having better than I can screams..

    "Hey God, why are you doing this to me? Am I not living up to what I'm supposed to be?"

    (Then, I go on to list all the lyrics from the song here, followed by a description of why the song meant so much to me at that time.)

    The person could then read the lyrics to the song and it seek out the video or mp3 on their own....

    Would that also be illegal/infringing on a copyright?

    Thanks
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Absolutely not! You MUST have written permission to include someone else's lyrics in your work. Be aware, the music industry is quite litigious about such matters.
     
  8. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    Ty ty
     
  9. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    What Cogito said.

    You must have express and written permission not only to use their lyrics in general but specifically for use in the particular project. Asking "can i use your lyrics" and getting a "sure, use them" doesn't work.
     
  10. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    that's a major no-no!

    for the reasons given above...
     
  11. tinylittlepixie
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    tinylittlepixie Member

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    All of the above, unless you want to get into some serious copyright issues. But referencing an artist, musician or song should be okay I guess. Labelling for example that the character is at a NIN gig is fine, but I wouldn't quote any lyrics unless you own the rights to them.

    Maybe ask why this is crucial to the plot or character development?
     
  12. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    I feel compelled to promote the movies, artists, writers, and musicians that have saved my life over the years.

    Mainly, the musicians.

    Music is an instrumental part of my writing process.

    Without it I could not access the memories and all the thoughts/emotions that go with them inside my mind.

    I feel obligated to pay homage when I write.

    I find creative ways to promote in my stories.
     
  13. Mithrandir
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    Mithrandir Contributing Member

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    Using someone's music in your writing isn't homage or promotion. It's theft. To use someone else's stuff, you must gain their consent and pay them money. Pretty simple.
     
  14. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    Got It.

    Ty.

    I don't want to wind up in jail again.

    Will remove all music lyrics or references from my writings.
     
  15. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    You can include a Thank You chapter at the end or the beginning of your book, where you can "pay homage" as you call it all you want.
    And as for the images, they also need the permission of the copyright owner (if there is one) to be used. Usually the photographer or the record label.
     
  16. Lotgrinder
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    Lotgrinder Member

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    That sounds like a way better plan. :)
     
  17. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    You could name the song in your work, but without the advice of an attorney you shouldn't go beyond that.
     
  18. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    A thank you chapter will not protect you. You MUST have prior written permission.
     
  19. slamdunk
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    I don't think it is crystal clear that it would be a crime to link to youtube from an eBook (many blogs link to youtube music videos and they also make money on what they do, personally I never heard anyone suing these people for this). It is something entirely different to host the music file yourself or if you somehow embedded it into the eBook (that I'm very sure would be a crime to do with a lot of songs). But as far as I know YouTube is owned by Google that ultimately have a responsibility in what they provide on their sites and to who. Youtube pay royalties to some artists to host their content and if youtube in someway provide data that they aren't allowed to then it is really up to them to do something about it, youtube even let you embed several videos (this is probably due to them having contracts allowing that, or they as a big company know that this isn't breaking a bunch of laws?), even on this forum there is the "insert video" functionality that allows people to add a youtube video/song.

    Having said this I am no lawyer so take this for what it is (just some speculations by someone that don't know laws that well and don't claim to be accurate). I agree with others that you should be sure as to what the law say (laws can be quite different in different countries as well).
     
  20. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm moderately sure that he meant a thank you instead of using the song lyrics, rather than as a way to justify using them. But I could be wrong.
     
  21. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    That's exactly what i meant. I suggested using a thank you chapter and excluding any other potentially copyrighted material from the project. No one is going to sue you for thanking them for something.
     
  22. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    Most content written on blogs and forums is not copyrighted by anyone and therefore the content belongs to noone. That is the reason mods and admins can delete posts/threads without getting sued by the users.

    Google (and subsequently YouTube) is syndicated with VEVO, an alliance between Universal Music Group,Abu Dhabi Media, Sony Music Entertainment, and EMI and because of that YouTube is hosting a little over 50.000 music videos legally. The advertising revenues are shared between Google and VEVO. No artist makes a dime out of this system.

    The reason you can post links to videos that are in violation of copyright in blogs is that as per the agreement signed when one creates a blog with one of the major providers (blogger, blogspot, wordpress etc) one is obligated to take down content that is deemed illegal or in violation of the terms of the agreement. And since one doesn't actually sell the contents of the blog but rather makes money from the advertisements in it, one can't be sued for damages.
     
  23. evelon
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    evelon Active Member

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  24. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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  25. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    you clearly do not understand the nature of copyright protection, xatron...

    everything that anyone writes is automatically copyrighted from the moment it is completed and it exists in a reproducible form... the only thing that can [but does not have to] be done after that is to register the already existing copyright with the libary of congress [in the US... in the UK it's the british library, i think]...

    learn the official skinny here: www.copyright.gov

    lotgrinder...
    there's nothing wrong or illegal with mentioning titles and artists/composers... that's done all the time and you don't need permission to do so... you can't be sued unless you write something about the songwriter/artist that they don't like...
     

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