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  1. Mans
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    Iran advised West frequently

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Mans, Nov 15, 2015.

    Iran advised Europe and even America frequently:

    "Don't help ISIS, don't support them, don't give them money and weapon. They are just some brutal and pitiless assassins and terrorists. People of Syria and their lawful president, Assad are rightful, they are right and they have been target of ISIS terrorism. Don't try to hurt Syria government by ISIS.
    Assad as a wise and faithful president and the army of Syria as the defense force has stood against ISIS. You instead help those terrorists, help Dr.Assad to root up ISIS in Syria..."

    But nothing happened. Europe and America ignored the advises of Iran. They supposed ISIS just attack to Syria people and areas. The supposition was wrong. Now Europe understood Who are ISIS.
    The uncontrollable wolves that attack everyone and everything without any consideration.

    A few days before attacking in French, they did a few suicide bombing in Lebanon and killed a group of Muslim people. Two of the terrorists succeeded to blast the bombs, one of them was killed before be able to blowup his bomb, and one captured before doing any massacre. Nonetheless in that terror about 48 Muslim were killed and a lot were injured. I saw a new in TV that a 4 year old kid namely Mostafa has missed both his mother and father in the bombing and was on a bed in hospital due to his wounds.

    However, America and Europe must review about decisions. They must not help ISIS and similar groups (in Syria). All are terrorist, especially ISIS that is the most brutal group. President Assad is a good and popular in charges in Syria that has fought with terrorism in the area inexhaustibly.He resisted against every political pressure that applied by West in addition to difficulty of war with ISIS.

    I heard recently, Mr. Kerry the foreign minister of America had expressed, " The solution of Syria problem is that, Assad gives up presidency of Syria ( apart from choice and will of Syria people)."

    It is a wonderful expression! That's like saying that someone detonate a great dam to resolve the problem of watering a farm!

    Assad is a key factor against ISIS terrorists. Also all people and army of Syria love him and choose him. Instead of such odd ideas, all governments in the world must support this willful, faithful and worthy president versus terrorism.

    In respond to Mr.Kerry's plan, Iran expressed, " The only thing that can be determinant in Syria its people are. People of Syria are alive and are active. They are the only determining factor that can say, who should go and who to stay. Although the problem of Syria is terrorism and not Dr.Assad but nonetheless, nation of Syria are able to specify their own destiny and not someone else. If they want that Assad to stay, it will be the same, and If they want to choose another person for presidency.

    But something is predictable that nation of Syria don't leave their beloved character Bashar Assad that is their worthy and reliable leader in the fight with ISIS.

    Now something is happening. Russia, ally of Syria, has sent a part of its air force to Syria, based on request of Syria government to aid the army of this country on the ground, against ISIS that mostly is fed by Saudi Arabia. The Russian bombers and fighters have a lot of combat missions versus bases and situations of terrorist groups.

    They have made a hell for ISIS by intense bombardment around the clock. A lot of ISIS members have been killed in the airstrikes and a lot of their bases, equipment and facilities have been destroyed or damaged intensely. This caused the army of Syria could go advance in the most of the battlefields against terrorists and released some of cities and villages that ISIS occupied at the beginning of their rebellion. This series of victory was notable and I sometimes see the laughing face of the Syria soldiers in the news of TV that raise their gun and say happily:" Terrorists will be destroyed soon". The moral of Syria army is very good, especially with the victory that seized.

    However, I am not only sorry for the Muslims that were killed in Lebanon by ISIS, but have a sympathy with the victims' families in French. I hope Mr.Kerry forget deforming the government of Syria and pay to an actual and serious alternative against ISIS terrorists in the world. Also I offer him to avoid individual decision or any military presence in Syria and Iraq without permission, confirmation and coordination of these two countries nation and governments. Ignoring the respect, Independence and worth of a nation and its home is oppose to international laws and rules. Plus, it makes the problem twin and more complicated.
     
  2. GingerCoffee
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    Hi Mans, I was going to ask your thoughts from an Iranian POV. This probably belongs in the debate room rather than the lounge.

    The problems in Syria are complex but it seems a lot of the Middle East nightmare keeps coming back to the Sunni-Shia divide. The US has never supported ISIS except maybe accidentally by supporting the opposition to Assad in Syria, getting involved in their civil war. We made similar mistakes supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. It would seem in both cases the US-Russia clash (which also makes little sense to me) is also behind some of the conflict.

    I don't claim to understand anything about who was initially right and who was wrong in Syria but I do believe the minority Alawite government was where the current civil war began. Other than that, everyone in the US agrees ISIS is a group of maniacs. No one here, including the government supports them.

    If anyone wants an idea how complicated the mess in that country is, take a look at the Wiki entry on the Alawites. It's clear why France is so involved and how Lebanon and Russia are as well.
     
  3. Mans
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    Hello GingerCoffee.I am happy to see you

    Dear Ginger, the problem in Syria is not so complicated. You said that may it is because of Sunni-Shia divide, but there is not any division or conflict between Shia and Sunni.
    Also it is good you remember Dr. Assad himself and about 75% of Syria nation are Sunni Muslim, While ISIS claim that are Sunni as well!

    Shia haven't any religious role in Syria and the war is between government- nation of Syria and ISIS, that both are Sunni. Of course I don't agree that ISIS to be Muslim at all, because Islam is religion of logic and peace and it is in fight with a manic and crazy group like ISIS that assassinate unarmed people brutally and out of humanity and law. In fact, ISIS is an extreme group with Islamic mask and banner that is going wrong apart from Islam and Muslims.

    If you follow the news of Syria or the other Islamic lands, you will find out ISIS has killed a lot of Sunnis too. This is an evidence that the war in Syria is not relative to Sunni and Shia religious believes.

    Also if you study around the Islamic countries, you will realize that there are a lot of Shia and Sunni folks in every country that live beside each other peacefully and without any conflict. For example, although the most majority of Iran nation are Shia but a part of the nation are Sunni and mostly live in the southern cities of Iran. So the rebellion of ISIS is not relative to Shia and Sunni, but they are an extreme group that has been created and trained by kingdom of Saudi.

    Also it is not so that we think there is a civil war in Syria! Civil war does mean a war between two group of people in a country. People of Syria are one and there is not any engaging between them but the cause of war are some rebel groups that move unlike the law and will of people, the groups like ISIS that are warring against nation and legal government of Syria.

    GingerCoffee, it is late and I am napping so I have to go to sleep. I shall write the rest of the comment tomorrow :)
     
  4. GingerCoffee
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    Thanks, @Mans. I should also point out there is a lot of misinformation about the US supporting ISIS going around the Internet.

    ISIS has said they don't believe Shia are godly haven't they?

    This was interesting: The Only Thing Iraq’s Sunnis and Shias Hate More Than Each Other Is the Islamic State
    Maybe this will lead to the US mending some fences with Iran.
     
  5. Lewdog
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    Kerry didn't say that Mans. In the most recent convention they had, Kerry said that the U.S. simply wants the current government in Syria to have a peace treaty with the rebels, and there to be a new national election that lets the people of Syria decide who they want to rule them.
     
  6. GingerCoffee
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    I'm curious about what you think of this article @Mans:

    How Saudi Wahhabism Is the Fountainhead of Islamist Terrorism

    The children also get food from the madrassas, another motivation to attend in areas of extreme poverty.

    This is what I believe is one of the main sources that grew this terrorism and where I think the best solution lies.
     
  7. Mans
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    GingerCoffee, the concept partially is right. Let me I explain a little:

    Saudi Arabia that is the center and capital of all extremists in the Middle East has tried all the time to create a series of Sectarian strife between Sunni and Shia but it wasn't successful. The majority of Sunni people know Shias and know they are a good and peaceful people and the devilish inspiration of Saudis was ineffective in them. Especially after Daash appeared in Iraq and Syria and did the extreme crimes and felonies in the areas, they believed in Shia more than ever. Now, whether Sunnis or Shias are fighting with ISIS beside each other and there is not any annoyance between them. You even can see the Kurdish people that are Sunni are fighting with Daash by all soul.
     
  8. Mans
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    But I heard in a conference recently ( even in English) Mr. Kerry emphasized that "Assad should go because it absorb the militants in Syria!" He also Said in a previous lecture: " We will send the necessary weapons for the adversaries of Assad in Syria"
    Of course he interpreted the adversaries as a side of the civil war in Syria while they are a political group like Daash with another mask versus nation of Syria.
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    What do you think started or was the cause of the civil war in Sryia, @Mans?
     
  10. plothog
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    The general Western view is that the rebel groups that the US has been supporting are very different to ISIS/Daesh.
    ISIS have been seen as an enemy for a while now and has been subject to Western air strikes even before Russia became involved.
    The murder of British tourists on a beach in Tunisia, that ISIS claimed responsibility for, certainly means most people in the UK already viewed the group as bad guys.

    I don't know what the other rebel groups in Syria are actually like, except that they are fighting against Assad and they haven't been involved in international terrorism like ISIS.

    Assad himself is viewed far more negatively over here than he is in Iran. From what we've seen, not all Syrian's love him. In fact many Syrian people protested against his rule, but Assad took brutal steps to attack and silence them, which is when the civil war started.
    Now whether the Americans should have got involved with that fight is an ongoing debate here, but it's not seen to be as simple as Assad = good vs Rebels = evil. (Or visa versa)

    The American government would still like Assad to be removed from power, but dealing with ISIS has become a priority over that. What they're trying to work out now is if there's a way to do both, though since Russia got involved that aim has got rather difficult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  11. Lewdog
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    http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/10/23/kerry-in-vienna-seeks-diplomatic-solution-to-syrian-war

    The main focus right now is on compromise. The U.S. government does want Assad out, but they are willing to make terms with Russia and allow the people of Syria to make the judgement on Assad and if he should remain President. The hard part is bringing the rebels that oppose Assad to the table of peace talks and getting them to agree to a new national election.

    One of the key reasons the United States stuck their noses into this business in the first place, is similar to what happened in Iraq. The leader, Assad was butchering his own people that opposed his rule, even going as far as using chemical weapons on them. And now the destabilization of the area has led to a hot bed for terrorist to take harborage in Syria. So one of the keys to not only stabilizing Syria, but also to hopefully end the rise of terrorist activity there, is to create a government that is supported by the majority of the people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
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  12. Mans
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    As I told before, there is not a civil war in Syria, but the war is between opposite, rebel group, the lawful government and the nation of Syria that are supporter of their popular government.

    Of course the malicious ideologists and originators of these terrorist groups whether in Saudi Arabia or other lands try to influence (mostly) in common people and turn them into their extreme believes and it is done by brainwashing.

    They also work on simple educated persons in the West that are capable for rebellion, sedition and finally assassination.

    I wonder how they do this and what is their method that can absorb a university student in Europe and America, while he is familiar with civilization, science and many other similar subjects! They deceive them in the way that they deceive common people, and it is very weird for me!

    Anyhow, there is just one conflict in Syria and it is the war of terrorism with Syria people; whether ISIS or the group that America government calls it a side of civil war. The both groups have been born just for one purpose but with different names, process and operations.

    One day Europe and America in charges thought, ISIS is a good group for them and it can help them to overthrow President Assad, but after happening some terroristic movement in UK and Boston, they realized that it is not a reliable group for them and changed their strategy toward Daesh and considered it as the enemy.

    Now, the west politicians express , “we want to help another group in Syria rather than Daesh. It is a Straight group that is fighting with Assad with a different idea rather than ISIS ideology.”

    This supposition is similar to the previous imagination about ISIS. In fact, there is not any difference between this adversary group and ISIS. Both are drunk from one glass and both are drinking from one head stream. The names are different but the qualities are one, and I hope the West politicians have not committed a mistake again, because I don’t think the mistake will be compensable in a short time and the terrorist group that are called a part of civil war in Syria now, will appear as a destroyer and assassin group like ISIS in the world.

    So please keep in mind, the interpretation of civil war in Syria is wrong and warring parties in Syria are just “ Terrorists & Syria nation” ( the government and army of Syria are among the nation)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  13. Lewdog
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    I'd like to see proof that the U.S. ever supported ISIS, and I am betting that you won't find it, because it never happened. As far as the rebels who oppose Assad being terrorists, I'm sorry but when a leader kills his own people that don't support his rule, there is going to be some kind of uprising, and when the facts come out that he did some of the awful things he did, other countries are going to step up to keep these evil things from happening again.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nearly-1500-killed-in-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-us-says/2013/08/30/b2864662-1196-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

    This report comes from the Washington Post, one of the most respected newspapers in the entire U.S. @Mans do you respect a leader that uses illegal chemical weapons on his own people killing children?
     
  14. Mans
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    @Lewdog; every group is known by its actions in the world. please study records of ISIS (and similar groups) and see what they have done in recent decades?
    Their crimes unfolded that they are among the most savage
    and bloodthirsty beasts in the history. Have you forgotten that how they attacked many unarmed and faultless people in the world, whether Muslim and non Muslim, killed thousands and thousands, injured twice that numbers of people and destroyed or damaged many towns and villages and building?
    please look at Syria and Iraq and see how many people they have killed? And also as the less important massacres, look at around the world and see what they have done with other people too? It is very hard to mention all the names of the persons (mostly in Middle East) they have killed or injured and the towns, villages and buildings they have destroyed during these decades.

    What about Dr. Assad? What he has done in the world except fighting with terrorism and defense of his people and land?

    Those who used a limited amount of chemical projectile were terrorist groups in Syria, based on the official reports of UN organization agents.

    UN commission among " Carla Del Ponte", the representation of America in the commission confirmed using " Neurosciences Chemical Gas" (Sarin) in Syria but it clarified that the user of the chemical gas were rebel groups of Syria and not the government.

    Also "Lawrence Wilkerson ", former chief of staff of the US State Department declared " What I hear from the secret services of America ( about using chemical gas by Syria government) are not reliable. I recommend US government, don't interfere in Syria based on these unfounded arguments."

    It was revealed later that the rebel groups received the chemical shells through the boundary of Turkish.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
  15. GingerCoffee
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    Thank you for telling us how people in Iran see these events, @Mans. I don't think people realize that we are not all getting the same information about these events.

    We in the US are in complete agreement that ISIS is "among the most savage
    and bloodthirsty beasts in the history." Sadly, such atrocities continue to occur in the world and here it is happening yet again.

    In this country and in the UK, the news we have gotten about Assad is that people protested peacefully in Syria and he responded with brutality.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26116868
    Clearly in Iran the news media has presented a different story.

    It is my belief that I should listen to other sides of a story in order to find the truth. But I also have to keep in mind that I might be hearing the truth or I might not. Have you ever considered the same?
     
  16. Mans
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    Your concept is right. Everyone should relay on his own thought, feeling and finding. So he has to research around every issue (by his own thought or sometimes reliable masters or guidance) that is unknown or vague for him, especially when the issue is connected to his belief and living.
    Sometimes news are not independent and are written or interpreted by political pens for a particular purpose. In these situations usually the medias are under influence of the powerful Political trends. Usually such as interventions are seen more in the West and Arabic medias.

    Most of the times, the official medias of Iran reflect the news truly as they are, and don't change their contents or the numbers relative to them. They report the events as they have taken place and interpret a character as he is. So they don't try to trick on people and spread untrue news or change the news based on the benefit of a political party and so on.

    Sorrily, in the West it is not so and political parties influence into medias and change the news as they wish. Of course it happens mostly in the interpretation section of the news. They also make the fake news that have not existed and happened.

    As far as I know, and also read in some western political articles, Zionists are an important political and economic trend in America. They not only influence in economy of America and dominate
    on many important, huge and rich companies and corporations, but they have a particular location in Sena and government of America and can change the decisions and programs of the government or Sena as they want. I also have heard they influence in education and training department of America and specify the content of the textbooks that American student should learn. Also the trace of their step seen in Hollywood and the corrupted websites and magazines that publish unethical and destroyer sexy contents and pictures that corrupt the moral of teenage and young persons in America, Europe and other lands of the world. Many parents are concerned about their children in America and Europe and are complaining against such destroyer programs in the webs and magazines and request the governments to end up those corruptions.

    However, it is a good Idea that you study the both type of news either the news that are spread by western or eastern sources but as I told before, at percent, Arabic news are not trustful mach as well and if you want to receive original and reliable news, refer to these news :

    http://english.farsnews.com/

    http://www.irna.ir/en/

    http://en.mehrnews.com/

    http://www.tasnimnews.com/en

    http://www.tehrantimes.com/

    http://www.presstv.ir/
     
  17. Mans
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    Lewdog I forgot to respond to this question :

    I have to say I am not interested to be a person to follow such as subjects and prove something. I just relay on the news that some of the in charges of America declared that they have helped ISIS by money, weapon (and probably satellite information) to overthrow president Assad in Syria.

    But they Also expressed this declaration that at the time, they didn't know Daesh was a terrorist group!
     
  18. GingerCoffee
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    All news, no matter the country, reflects a certain point of view. I'm surprised you don't realize that. Thank you for the links though.
     
  19. Bookster
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    Mostly the usual anti-Semetic nonsense. Sadly, irrational Jew-hating has existed here and elsewhere for centuries. There's already a thread here discussing conspiracy theories, I think.

    As for ISIS' recruiting ability, I thought this was fascinating:

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine/
     
  20. Mans
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    Bookester, what I told was not against Jews. There is not the smallest conflict with this people. They are a respectful folk as other people, Christians, Buddhists, Zoroastrians and so on.
    I never think as an anti-Semitic and haven't the smallest opposition to people that follow other religions. Jews are respectful for me and they are free to follow their own religion.

    What I pointed to, was about the political Jews namely Zionists that have gone out of the Judaism statements and rules (Torah). And this is what the peaceful Jews say themselves, even in the west. I think you have seen the meeting of Jews versus Zionism in America. They often protest to Zionists and say unsatisfied that they are going wrong and act contrary to Torah.

    Also what I said about influence of Zionists in America was not the sign of a personal enmity. That was what I read in an Jewish website. Sadly I forgot to keep in my mind its address but if you would like, I will try to find the website again and post some of its articles
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
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  21. Mans
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    A new report
    I think this news makes the peoples of Lebanon and French happy:

    Russian fleet in the Caspian sea targeted the positions of ISIS by several long-rang missiles (about 26 missiles), in addition to the massive airstrikes that Russia carry out on the gathering places of terrorists.

    [​IMG]

    Also the army of Syria killed about 15 person of ISIS that were trying secretly to move back the bodies of their killed militants that were killed a few days ago by firing of Syria army in a combat.

    The reports suggest that the army of Syria is going forward in some positions, step by step and the terrorists had to leave their previous positions and retreat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  22. Ben414
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    The pro-Israel lobby in the US is not nearly as strong as some people think. The parts of the government that support Israel do so for economic and political reasons, not some ridiculous claim of "Zionist influence." And in regards to the media, a lot of the media has become negative towards Israel's actions towards Palestinians. Claims of Zionism takeover of America have been around for decades, even though experts continue to show that it's not true.
     
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  23. Lewdog
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    I'm sorry but this is very irresponsible of you to make such statements but won't show any kind of proof.
     
  24. Mans
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    I did mean; I am not an expert political interpreter and am not a researcher in this field. Also I don't like interfere in such as issues much.

    Robert Gates, the former US defense minister, in respond to the recent decision of Pentagon about the opponents of Assad said:


    [​IMG]

    " Training Syrian rebels was wrong from the beginning. The recent decisions of Pentagon about the Syrian rebels illustrates that America has realized its mistake for investing and training these groups. I emphasis that America policy about training the opponent groups of Assad was wrong from the beginning. It must be admitted that America has been confused in Syria."
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  25. Lewdog
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    Those are Syrian rebels not ISIS.
     
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