I think you guys are missing my point... Hypothetically If 100,000 words somehow gets crammed into a book of 150 pages then it'll look like a smaller novel and the text will make your eyes bleed. If 100,000 goes into a novel of 500 pages then to the public, it'll look bigger and there eyes won't bleed. The public will see the bigger book and maybe find that more attractive because it looks bigger. (bulls*it baffles brains, is an old saying). The same could be said about the thinner book. My main question was for a novel of 7200 words how many pages in a average novel would that come at? I suggested maybe about 18 or 19.
LOL re: James Patterson However, actually in Czech universities, they set their essay length by its page count, not word count. Although they would fall under "Czech teachers" rather than English - but I did assume you simply meant a literature teacher of any kind at a school and English was just the obvious one 'cause you're from the US. I'm curious though - on average, how long should a chapter's word count be then? One that the average publisher likes? (I know it varies according to the story etc, but just asking if there's an average that one should adhere to unless one is famous like Patterson) Mine are between 3000-5000 approx.
no, there is NO 'average' that one should adhere to... period! each chapter should be as long or short as it needs to be... and you, as the writer, are the only one who can determine what that is... if agents or publishers who are seriously interested in repping/publishing your book suggest any change in chapter length, that's the only time you should consider it...
*bangs head against desk repeatedly* People, the OP asked whether 7350 words was too short for a book. I think everyone unanimously answered yes, it is too short. Try to get it published in a magazine. The whole mind numbingly circular argument about whether word count or page count is more or less irrelevant is starting to disintegrate into farce. I don't know why Coggie hasn't binned this entire discussion as off topic?
Exactly. Whoever mentioned the page count in the first place was probably just trying to make the OP understand why it was totally too short for a book.
7000 words is too short, but you also have another problem: Combining poems and short stories into a single book is not going to work. If you want to see these works published, you're better off sending them out to magazines or maybe publishing them yourself as a Kindle book.
Isaac Asimov and Neil Gaiman have both done it, so it can work. The original questioner might want to try their approach: Become internationally recognised as one of the most marketable writers in a popular genre; Wait for your publisher to start asking for any barrel-scrapings you might have, because they can sell anything with your name on it; Profit!
Hey! I was about to say that! Yes, it is true that established writers who already have large audiences can get away with things beginners can't.
Ok, let me rephrase -- Once the OP becomes as famous as Asimov, he can go ahead and try to sell this to a publisher. Until then... just no.
What about Epublishing? Do people buy compiled work from non-famous? I agree with magazine submissions. (epub is all about word count because, I believe, there is no set page length between the various reader programs.) (also if you use thicker paper, the book is thicker but page count stays the same)
There are tons of people making good money with ebooks. So yeah, it's possible. I'm still not entirely sure why you're combining poetry and short stories into a single ebook. Are they all connected by a common theme? If not, I would consider splitting them. Publish the short stories as a collection and see how that goes.
Tons? I think that's an exaggeration, unless they are a rotund lot. Are you including hard copy authors who then release an e-edition? If people are going to plonk down their hard earned dough for a book, it has to be worth it to them. That means your e-book has to meet the same kind of quality standards as p-books. The problem is, any fool can put out an e-book, and accordingly, there are many, many e-books written by fools to wade through to find the few worthwhile e-books. It's like they say: If it sounds too good to be true, rest assured it is.
Yes, there are TONS of people making good money with ebooks. Did I say everybody? No, I didn't. A lot of people are making nothing or very little. I write full-time but ebooks are only a small part of my income; other writers are earning a full-time living (or close) with their ebooks. I agree that self-published books need to be high quality in order to sell. People who are serious about their writing should know that. If they don't, well, too bad for them.
There are a few people working their butts off around the clock and making good money while self-publishing (e.g. John Locke and Amanda Hocking), and thousands more that make only enough money to supplement the jobs they just can't quit. Cogito is right, while it is possible to make a living off self-publishing, it is far from the norm. Unless by "good money" you mean some extra cash to treat yourself to a nice dinner now and then. Unless you are a master marketer, or aspire to be, don't quit your day job.
80 000 is about 320 pages... Isn't that a little too much for a minimum? The Reader - 224 pages (Bernhard Schlink) Ombria in Shadow - 288 pages (Patricia A. McKillip) On Chesil Beach - 166 pages (Ian McEwan) Baby Jane - 220 pages (Sofi Oksanen) Harm's Way - 243 pages (Celia Walden) Succesful, beautiful novels - and not a single one of them is 320 pages long. Not even being a young, non-famous writer changes the way publishers see your story if it's good and interesting (and if they are good, sharp-eyed publishers). Leght is not what makes a story interesting!
ignoring the exceptions [which you should do, if just starting out], the vast majority of book publishers want 80-100k words for a first novel by a new, unknown writer...
What does 80-100k mean? And seriously, something's got to be wrong if great stories that for some reason are not long enough to fill at least 320 pages are looked down on. Come on, I could write 9239587328579 pages of complete rubbish and then say it's probably better than the 200-word-top-quality-book someone else just wrote. So what's the point?
Question for mammamaia and Cogito: Is this 80,000 word minimum for a first novel just an American thing? Or does the same guideline apply in the UK, Canada, Australia, and the entire English-speaking world in general? Four out of the five examples There_She_Goes listed are by non-American writers. Perhaps they didn't have to worry about the same guidelines Americans do.
80-100k means 80000 to 100000 words. That is the preferred word count range for most new publishers (minstrel, there may be international variations. Publishers' stated word counts in their submission guidelines trump these generalizations, regardless of country). The reason for a preferred word count range is that publishing ius a business. Publishers know that for an unknown author, that is the range that gives the best odds for earning enough revenue to cover the costs of publishing and marketing the book. And even those odds aren't a good gamble for the publishers. It only becomes a good bet if the writer becomes a known writer who will produce additional books at as good or better quality than the initial offering. An established writer is given more latitude because that writer has a proven profit potential. If you self-publish, you are still well-advised to follow the length guidelines. The market considerations remain the same whether you are self-publishing or publishing traditionally. More content increases your costs, but the selling price won't go up proportionally; sales quantities may even drop as the work increases in length. Too short, and the readers won't think they are getting their money's worth, and again, decreased sales volume.
However, each publisher will have a different idea, and it depends on the genre you are writing. 80-100k is quite narrow, though it's a safe range since all publishers will accept novels this length. Many publishers will look at new novels as low as 60k, sometimes as low as 50k, and the upper end can easily be up to 150k. Romance novels are usually around 55k, and the range for YA books is similarly lower than standard. Science fiction and fantasy books are expected to be much longer (due to world building mostly), with a cap as high as 200k.
none of those listed save one are by new and unknown writers of first novels... and the genre/market of the one that is, allows for shorter novels... however, at 224 pp, 300 words per page, it would come out to 86.400 words, which is well within the preferred range... and hardcovers can run to over 350 words per page, depending on book size and font used... The Reader - 224 pages (Bernhard Schlink) published in germany in 1995 by a german law professor and judge who was also a well-known novelist [not an 'unknown new writer']... was not published in the us till it was already an international bestseller... Ombria in Shadow - 288 pages (Patricia A. McKillip) speculative fiction for the YA market [which allows for shorter novels, though hardcover version was 304 pp]... On Chesil Beach - 166 pages (Ian McEwan) published in the UK by one of britain's most highly regarded authors and booker prize winner, so anything he writes of any length would be successfully published... Baby Jane - 220 pages (Sofi Oksanen) published in finland...author was already a prize-winner for her first book when this was written... Harm's Way - 243 pages (Celia Walden) published in the UK by a well known journalist, critic, and former gossip columnist and girlfriend [now wife] of piers morgan... so the list does not disprove the rule as stated in re american publishers...
The Stranger - 184 pages (Albert Camus) It was his very first novel and it won the Nobel prize in 1957! I understand that publishers want to make profit, but as a person who is just starting her first novel I can say that setting such requirements only makes writing feel stupid. Like "Well, I could have made this scene nice, short and elegant but now I have to fill it with crappy nonsense to get this damn thing published". Gr8
