Is it bad being competitive?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Charisma, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. Gawler

    Gawler Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    Australia via Hawaii via Australia via England
    This is starting to deviate from the OP. To get things back on track, I would suggest to Charisma that you might be best concentrating on improving your own scores so that you can be the best that you can be. Taking an interest in other peoples scores will not achieve that goal.
     
  2. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    847
    I don't think high achievers have to be, are, or should be competitive with anyone other than themselves. I was a high achiever in school; my son was in the Gifted Student Program at his school. Neither of us is competitive by nature, but we work our butts off to do the best job we can. Do others do better when working with high achievers? I think they do - but usually when the high achiever is inspirational rather than competitive.
     
  3. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    " I will not hurt you," said the hunter.
    "I will not sleep with your husband," said the home wrecker .
    " I will not compete with you," said the most competitive of them all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  4. Charisma

    Charisma Transposon Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,704
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Lahore, Pakistan
    I think I should introduce two new facets of interests to this discussion. Please note, there should be no worry of me taking offense, because wherever I have taken offense I have been pretty forward. XD Also, I value all your opinions. It's always good to know the community you interact with will not blindly agree with whatever you have to say; they will make you think and rethink and re-rethink. :D With that in mind, I will ask you to think about two points (if you're interested, that is).

    Firstly, I think we all need to operationalize what we mean by "competitive". Please note: I'm removing myself from this question, because I will obviously be biased about myself, in one way or another :p Instead, I'm referring to competitive people I've known through life, at least some of them. From many of the posts, the ideas about cooperation and competition are noble, but nonetheless I found some of them to be very strikingly odd--characteristics of competitive people described included vanity, arrogance, meanness, loneliness, embitterment and being pathetic (I'm paraphrasing, I guess most of you didn't use any of these words) but I would not associate any of those words with the people I know as competitive. On the contrary, no one mentioned passionate, driven, ambitious, steadfast and committed, words I would use for many of the people I see as competitive.

    For instance, last year's valedictorian was also a good friend of mine, and she was the first woman valedictorian of our university. She was the most helpful and considerate senior of mine; she literally helped me passed Freshman Biology, because she gave me all the notes I needed and guided me how to tackle the horrible instructor. I took all my academic (and sometimes, personal) advice from her. She even helps me out if I post a distressing status, and everyone I know describes her positively, at least in terms of her personality. Yes, she can be a little overbearing sometimes when she says stuff like "I've never failed at anything in life", but that means so little in view of who she is as a person. And yes, she's competitive--she is always pushing forward and working hard, has an eye on her competitors and concerned with where she stands.

    If you hate anecdotal examples as much as I do, let's go toward some hard facts. I am not in a mood to look for research articles, already do it too many times for my theses, but here's a nice article talking about pretty much what we're talking about. It talks about both sides so its not entirely one-sided, though I can see bias, of course, and that's fine, we're mature enough to read between the lines. Here are two quotes I think are good explanations of my point:
    Secondly, and this doesn't relate to competitiveness, but friendship. I've noted a good number of you have said I should respect my friend's desire not to share his grade, and that good friends should understand the other person's wishes. Please note, I am not saying I disagree. In fact, this discussion is only for the sake of argument--this does not have much to do with my relationship with him or lack thereof. I am just wondering what kind of ideas we have about friendship. So, in spirit of exploring that, I just would ponder--if A says something to B which B doesn't like, whose fault is it? Is it definitely A's fault for saying something that B disliked, or B's fault for not realizing his friend could never mean to hurt him? Or, is it both parties' fault?

    The general rule of any dissent is to be the bigger person and step up to apologize, and there are people I know who are the first one to apologize in any scenario, versus those who would never apologize no matter what. Clearly, neither extreme is healthy, but then there's the bigger question--where do you draw the line on when your partner's ego is greater than his commitment to you? And how much of an ego is allowed to be there for a healthy relationship to persist? Because, really, I feel apologizing or deferring is all about how important that point of contention is compared to the relationship itself. You decide, for any altercation, whether the issue is bigger than the relationship, or not. Here, I'll go ahead and introduce an example of myself. I am usually the first one to apologize in any argument, even if I don't think my behavior was in the wrong, primarily because I'd rather suck it up than have a fight with my friend. However, sometimes I refuse to apologize, mainly because I think that I deserve the benefit of doubt too, and tbh I just feel, "if you care enough, you can admit your mistakes, and even if you think you did nothing, you'll apologize because you care about me." What do you think about that? How do you view friendships and altercations?
     
  5. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,704
    Likes Received:
    3,425
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Wow, there are some words being thrown around in this thread.
     
  6. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    Charisma, I've been having fun till now in my posts...but honestly it sounds kind of like you're making too big a deal of this?

    You wanted to share grades, he didn't. He explained why in a rather matter of fact way, from how you describe. It's not such a big deal. You're the psychologist. Surely you can figure out what's really bothering you here. I find it hard to believe you're so bothered by a few hot tempered words from a colleague that you'd spend this much time talking about it. Maybe stress? For now, I'm going to assume you're madly in love with him.
     
  7. Charisma

    Charisma Transposon Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,704
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Lahore, Pakistan
    ...? Maybe I'm a serial killer and want to know if he fits my profile? Or, oh oh, I'm madly in love with myself and can't admit it! -_-

    Mate, I'm not even talking about him anymore. I'm talking about friendship in general. So unless you have something to say on that point, I think you're the one who're making a big deal out of this.
     
  8. Chinspinner

    Chinspinner Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,901
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Location:
    London, now Auckland
    I'd run with this explanation ;)
     
  9. Charisma

    Charisma Transposon Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,704
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Lahore, Pakistan
    *blushes* Oh come now, I know I'm awesome, but you needn't flaunt it. :love:
     
  10. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    I think I get it now...

    Charisma is a username belonging to two people, A and B. A, the original poster, got a slightly higher GPA than B, her "friend," and also twin sister, who was jealous of A for getting the higher score, and so snapped. A, who has all the same friends as B, since they are identical, needed somewhere to vent, so she posted here, and changed her identical twin sister to a "he." B figured it out. She guessed A's password on the first try, was super pissed to find out that A was talking shit, so she decided to ask us all whether she should still be friends withA- I want to take a break here and say I hypothetically just came up with "A" and "B" and was quite surprised to find out that "Charisma' had already gone with the "A" and "B" titles theirselves. Then I showed up, and almost uncovered all of it. See, B is in love with A, and A is in love with B, because they're both in love with themselves. Ask most of the posters on this thread. Competitive people are narcissists. When you have two identical narcissists, you begin to deal with an identity crisis. Suddenly, a .01 difference in GPA, or a mere declination to share a grade, becomes the equivalent to murder. Indeed, A and B are probably right now deciding how to best kill the other and assume the higher score. After all, isn't it entirely possible that one of the professors accidentally swapped scores at some point, and B is actually the one with the higher GPA? This is the only theory here that can explain Charisma's own statement "I'm madly in love with myself and can't admit it!" Of course, the real tragedy here is that, whoever assumes the final identity, will still be morally inferior to the other WF members here, who would never dream of competition.
     
  11. plothog

    plothog Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    England
    I consider myself competitive. Some of you may have heard of card game called Magic the Gathering. I've played that to a competitive level. For example I came top 4 in the English Nationals one year, therefore I got to play in the world Championship and play against many of the top players in the world.
    Tournament level Magic the Gathering is too competitive an environment for some of my friends who play the game, but I love it.

    For a lot of games and sports the barometer for success is how well you do against other people. You can tell you're getting a better at tennis as you win games against better and better opponents.
    I'd disagree with the statement that the only happiness you get is the brief high when you win something. I can believe that's true for some people. It's not true for me.
    I enjoy the whole process of trying to do as well as I can to outwit a closely matched opponent.
    It's like writing with the aim of publication. You've got to enjoy the process too. If you don't, it's not something for you.

    There are some people who turn nasty in their competitiveness. Who'll gloat when they win and berate their opponent for being lucky when they lose. But that doesn't have to be a part of it. I've been raised to be competitive. To try my hardest to win. But also to be a good sport. To always be gracious in defeat and victory.
     
    Link the Writer likes this.
  12. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    15,023
    Likes Received:
    9,676
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    You need a tagline for this: "I don't think I'm awesome, I know it." There. :D :p

    I can see why some people like competitions. It's thrilling, it gets the blood stirring, the heart pumping. It's the same rush as those who like high-speed, crazy roller coasters. Granted, be a good sport when you lose, but still, I can get it. Every decision must be the right one, you must be at least two steps ahead of your opponent. At the end, after a heart-pounding match, you feel like a badass when you win. Others like the process, the training to push yourself to a higher level than where you were before. That, too, is exciting as well.

    @123456789 - OK, was that just trolling or are you be serious?
     
    plothog likes this.
  13. pk.

    pk. Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    24
    The Industrial Revolution and subsequent historical events should answer this question. We have enjoyed many benefits, however the cost is essentially life on Earth itself.
     
  14. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    847
    I think the concept of 'fault' is a problem here. I have said many things my friends don't like, and vice-versa. It's no big deal and certainly there is no 'fault' involved. We say what we say, some like it, some don't. Now, if we, as friends, can express our dislike and agree to leave that particular discussion alone (because we now know each other's opinions), still no 'fault'. However, if one or both decide we must impose our views on the other, that the other must be convinced to agree with us, that the other is being obstinate or 'mean' if they do not change - then we move into fault territory. Friends often agree to disagree, and should have enough respect for each other to do so. When they don't, well, maybe they weren't very good friends after all.
     
  15. Wynter

    Wynter Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Australia
    In sports I've always been driven by the idea that I'm the best and I have to go out there and prove it. I've always been light-hearted about it though, I have a habit for self-deprecating humor but privately that's always driven me, the knowledge that I am better and the desire to prove it. In a way it's screwed me over because I had this idea that my team couldn't win without me (Which as a goalkeeper is entirely justified ;) ). And so I played injured so many damn times that my knees are pretty much done. But in saying that if I was able to go to Sydney for uni I had trials with some clubs. So in a way my competitiveness drove me to a high level and I didn't piss people off with it which was a bonus.

    In academics though I've never seen the point, I had friends who stopped talking to each other over grades meanwhile my best friend and I had enough smarts that we both comfortably got what we needed and there was never an edge to it because by the time year 12 rolled around last year we were both so done with school. So I'm not as in touch with your competitiveness even if I'm a ridiculously competitive guy. The only thing that drives me like sports do/still do (Playing but rehabbing knees atm) is writing which was coincidentally the only thing that still interested me in school alongside History classes.

    I've always wanted to be a writer which means overcoming my ridiculous penchant for procrastination. I've been putting on hold the work for my new chapter for 4 weeks now. Only just dragged myself to the table.

    I see nothing wrong with being competitive,I guess it's the way you express said competitiveness which can cause issues.
     
    KaTrian likes this.
  16. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    6,764
    Likes Received:
    5,393
    Location:
    Funland
    I don't find you overtly or annoyingly competitive. Maybe your friend had a bad day or he's sensitive about the matter for some reason but in general, I wouldn't find it abrasive or annoying. Actually, @Wynter pretty much wrote word-to-word what I was going to, so I don't have to go there. :D

    Ok, I say this. It's good to be a little bit competitive. Helps you stick to your goals, just as long as it doesn't become an obsession, and when you fail (and you will), everything comes apart. That's self-destructive... and possibly relation/friendship-destructive as well. Congratulations for your academic success so far and good luck with the "race"!

    And just a quick reminder to everyone. Please resist the urge to throw snide remarks and insults at your fellow forumites. Let's keep the tone of the thread civil. Thank you.
     
    T.Trian, Wynter and Swiveltaffy like this.
  17. Charisma

    Charisma Transposon Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,704
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Lahore, Pakistan
    @plothog I think I read a quote somewhere. I can't find it right now, but the general idea behind it was that the merit of a person is not measured by his attitude to winning, but to defeat. And that's very true. True sportsmanship means you deal with your defeat gloriously and benevolently.

    @Link the Writer Haha at the tagline XD When I was younger, I actually had a signature that read (I think, I have poor memory for such things), "Too awesome to care." Ah, the conceitedness of teenage!

    @shadowwalker I think you've put it rather nicely. It's what was in my mind too; after all, when relationships start playing the blame-game, it becomes a competition (how ironic XD) of who's the better person.

    @Wynter and @KaTrian Thanks for your opinion. I'm not too worried about him, either he'll patch things with me, or ironically turn our friendship into a competition :p I hope he's smart enough not to do that, though.
     
  18. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,253
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Location:
    Mushroom Land
    I love competition because it drives me to improve myself, it helps me keep moving and stay fresh when I don't get stuck in my comfort zone and start to decompose. That might not happen to everyone, but when I stop pushing myself to improve, I grow stagnant.

    And yes, comparing myself to others seems to be a part of the deal, but it's not to judge them, but to evaluate my own standing in comparison to the rest of the world since I don't live in a bubble, i.e. it's just another method for me to compete with myself; can I beat that guy's record of pull-ups? Can I reach and then surpass the girl's skill level who's a better guitar player than me at the moment? It's all about improving myself, the others are there basically to help me gauge my own level of proficiency.

    That being said, since I compete against myself, I rarely talk about it with others, especiallly those I compare myself to since usually I see no point in doing that unless I'm asking for or giving (requested) performance feedback in our joint desire to get better.

    To me, competition, makes my life more exciting, but I don't want pats on my back; I know what I'm good at. Instead, I hunt criticism, comments that would help me improve myself even further, people (be they my peers, pros, or "laymen" who can only offer their opinions, I listen to them all) pointing out what I'm doing wrong or what I could do better. That's the valuable stuff because it helps me improve.

    So, to @Charisma, don't worry about being competitive, it's nothing to be ashamed about. It has no inherent worth or fault in and of itself; it's what you do with it that determines whether it's a virtue or a flaw. Good luck on becoming a Valedictorian! :cool:
     
    Wynter likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice