Is my controversial character a good idea?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by silviadrake261, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I really appreciate all these answers but I feel like I'm hijacking the thread.
     
  2. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    There are going to be people who assume that because a character is German and has blond hair and blue eyes, that the person is a Nazi. I wouldn't worry about it, just write her as you envisioned her. :) The only way she'd be a Nazi is if she followed their ideology. And even if she were an unrepentant Nazi in a futuristic setting where she is purging all the non-humans on a planet she plans to be the next Earth, then well, it's not like the Nazis haven't cropped up in literature in one way or another for the last 70+ years. :D You're fine.

    But basically, don't worry about looks. Worry about her motivation, her beliefs, her values, her morality. Worry about what drives her, what makes her want to fight hard for her goals. Nazi or not, she's got to have something she thinks is worth fighting for.
     
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  3. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    It depends on the matter being critiqued. If someone is seeking validation of an idea, of their story or character, something that can be only theirs, then yes.
     
  4. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I loved my first chapter, but after feedback I took it out. I assure you I don't lack confidence. I don't see how listening to critics means you lack confidence. That's like mind reading if you can judge someone's confidence from a single question.

    Sometimes a post does suggest someone lacks confidence. People often come right out and say so. But reading personality and motivation into a question? I think we should be careful making assumptions on too little information.
     
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  5. Auratus

    Auratus Member

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    I for one who would think putting stereotypical Nazi character and making him doing non-nazi thing or opposed Nazi will look like writer is attempting to de-Nazi the character. Just a thought. I personally don't like the struggle from it.
     
  6. lustrousonion

    lustrousonion Senior Member

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    For me as a reader, the robot/creator question would need to be answered. I thought of this study of faces across Europe to find the average female face for that country. The German face is pretty dead on, in my opinion. Perhaps using the average characteristics of the country could be a reason why they've made her blonde?
     
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  7. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Why are all the faces ridiculously white...? Everyone, even the Africans, are so fair!
     
  8. lustrousonion

    lustrousonion Senior Member

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    Good point! And the Romanian is practically purple. So okay, not good for gauging skin tone. :)
     
  9. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    There you go again.
     
  10. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I think we're missing the point here. The OP was asking if her character, who possesses blue eyes and blonde hair, was too much of a Nazi. I'm saying that is not the case. Being a Nazi means you idolize Hitler and all his racist, hateful ideologies. Possessing a certain combination of hair and eye colors do not make you one thing or another.

    Her character's no more a Nazi than any of my characters are rednecks or neo-Confederates because they're from the Southeastern area of the United States. Being from a region, or possessing certain physical traits do not make one racist. It's the idea that a certain race is inferior and that one race is superior over all other races that makes one racist.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
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  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That is unfair. You cherry picked the quote ignoring the whole point.
    Here's the whole quote:
    You only quoted one sentence and left out the entire point that we should be careful assigning meaning beyond what is actually written.


    You have yet to articulate what the "certain aspects" are.
    Does it mean that nothing about our characters is subject to critique? The question was only about country of origin, not, "should I change the character altogether?"

    Let's try this again:
    How is asking if a character should be German seeking validation rather than asking for a second opinion about one single aspect of a character?

    You don't need to answer. I think we are reaching the dead horse beating phase of this exchange. But if you are going to make a comment like, "there you go again", it shouldn't be based on cherry picking my post.
     
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  12. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    The original OP asked if Robot>German>General>Female>blonde/blue eyes=Nazi I don't think that falls under the banner of ciritque. That's just a what do you think, question. Do you see a Nazi if I assign those traits. I'm trying to write a bisexual female which I know very little about and I asked for advice regarding stereotypes, which the OP is doing as well, asking about stereotypes and if their character possesses them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  13. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Writing is a pretty monumental task. I can't imagine one being successful if they are uncertain about even the most trivial of details, like hair color.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  14. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    I still don't think this question is about haircolor, it's about trying to not to produce a stereotypical character, in this case a Nazi when one isn't intending to.
     
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  15. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    As long as the character isn't goose stepping around the place, who cares what nationality they are? Few people worth talking to will think German = Nazi.
     
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  16. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Physical description in most cases doesn't have to be a big deal. This isn't a movie. We're not going to be hearing the accent.
     
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  17. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    I don't disagree.
     
  18. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I disagree. A good writer can convey the idea of the accent, even without resorting to phonetic renderings sometimes.
     
  19. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Hti?

    This is exactly why it's important to define "certain aspects" when we draw conclusions beyond what was actually posted.

    Let me back up a tad. Of course we draw conclusions about what the poster meant. And of course we are going to draw different conclusions from each other and from what the forum member writing the post meant. The nature of communication means we write through our filters and what we write is read through the reader's filters.

    What I read in the question is the mother is concerned that the character will cause the reader to think, "Nazi". The key element in that is not "Robot> ... General>Female>blonde/blue eyes=Nazi". The key element is "German" combined with "general". This is easily demonstrated by substituting each of those elements. Only two substitutions change the identity to or against hinting at "Nazi". If you took 'general' out you might not get 'Nazi', but that would change the story. So that leaves nationality as the element one could change if one chose to do so.


    If one reads, "wanting validation", in the post, then a request to articulate what it is in the OP question that shows validation is being asked (vs a second opinion on the character's country of origin) is an exercise in critical thinking.

    I'm not trying to be obstinate. It's not a big deal to read a post differently than someone else reads it, or to have a different opinion. The more important issue here is how we are reading things into posts that are not apparent and without seeking validation.

    @silviadrake261 has yet to return to tell us what she meant. If seeing validation sought is a gut reaction to a post, it's useful to define the triggers we read ("certain aspects") that said this forum member is asking us to validate her choices.

    I think the mother has a legitimate critique. I didn't see what @EdFromNY saw. But just seeing the post differently is fine. And I said so. When making assumptions about a message, it's not wrong or an insult or argumentative to simply ask the person making the assumptions what they are basing them on. It's a request to learn how the other person is coming to another POV than I am coming to.

    And when someone asks me the same thing, I see it as a means of clarifying my own thought processes. It's not an attack or an argument. And even when it is, there is a benefit in being forced to articulate how one justifies or comes to a POV. It focuses the lens.

    Few people worth talking to? Like @silviadrake261's mother?

    A lot of people will read that character through their pre-existing filters that include certain stereotypes about German generals. We should be deliberate when we write characters and story elements. If there is a reason to write the robot as a German general, do it. But don't dismiss the readers' filters, address them.
     
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  20. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Yes but it's not a necessity. Plenty of works, including good ones, do not do this.

    Not to mention, there's a huge difference between knowing what the accent should be, and hearing it continuously.
     
  21. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    @GingerCoffee, some people worth talking to may say that affects their reading. In general it shows that cultural biases are negatively affecting their reading, which isn't exactly smart.
     
  22. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    It's not about intelligence, it's about the nature of the human brain. Surely you have cultural biases.

    And how one perceives a character is just that, the reaction one gets reading about a character. It's not negative or positive. You could probably say it's negative if it's not what the writer intended the character to be perceived as. But that's not a measure of intelligence, it's a measure of the skill of the writer to depict the character.
     
  23. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    Typo. Thought I left a draft but posted instead.
     
  24. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    It's not really about intelligence. It's just not a good idea to be so biased as to equate two things that really don't have much in common besides a clash in history. I make no judgement about smarts in that way.
     
  25. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Alright, I shouldn't have worded it quite like that, but I stand by my own sentiment.
     

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