1. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    Is Romanticism Only For Men?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Cacian, Jan 6, 2012.

    I was reading about how men are to be romantic towards their ladies.
    Men in our society are the one expected to show romantic sides and treat their ladies in romantic way.

    my question are:

    should both men and women show romantic sides when courting?

    and

    Are you romantic?
     
  2. arron89
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    arron89 Banned

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    I thought you'd finally stumbled into an interesting, thoughtful topic for writers to discuss, but turns out you mean plain old romance, not Romanticism, which, since it apparently isn't obvious, aren't the same thing.

    If anyone wants to have that more interesting discussion, I'm game.
     
  3. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I don't see why women can't enjoy Wordsworth, Shelley, Keats and Byron as much as other poets.
     
  4. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    But Romanticism does seem heavily dominated by male figures.

    And I agree with aaron (this is becoming a bit of a habit...), this is the far more interesting discussion.
     
  5. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Maybe those are the names more remembered and associated with Romanticism today, but what about: Mary Shelley, Anna Seward, Anna Laetitia Barbauld, Hannah More, Charlotte Smith, Ann Yearley, Mary Robinson, Mary Wollstonecraft, Helen maria Williams, Joanna Baillie, Dorothy Wordsworth, Felicia Dorothea Hemans, Elizabeth Browning, and Letitia Elizavth Landon. These are all Romantic thinkers, writers, and poets.

    Same. I guess it's because the original question makes little sense.
     
  6. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    A fair point, and I confess that romanticism isn't exactly a subject I'm particularly familiar with. Sadly, as a layman, of the names you listed I'm only familiar with Mary Shelley, Mary Wollstonecraft and Elizabeth (Barrett?) Brownning.
     
  7. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    ^ Yeah, that's Elizabeth Barrett Browning.

    Romanticism and The Enlightenment are movements I have a particular interest in.

    What a typo! Letitia Elizabeth Landon.
     
  8. arron89
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    arron89 Banned

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    Both Goethe and Byron identify the ideal Romantic artist/writer as the sensitive, passionate young man. Romanticism is unique in that it privileges typically feminine traits--intuition, emotion, passion in direct opposition to the reason and logic of the Enlightenment--while at the same time, relegating women to a subordinate position. This was the era that gave rise to the notion of the femme fatale, a type that dominated the art and literature of the movement. Love poetry is generally similarly dismissive of the objects of the poems and focuses far more often on the male protagonist's experience.

    Women writers in Romantic literature (beyond the one or two token writers) is a pretty big gap in Romantic discourse, but I suspect that even if proper attention is given to it, it will still reveal a pretty disproportionate difference in the ways the genders were represented in Romanticism
     
  9. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    While a lot of this is true (The Romantics also enjoyed the idea of masculinity in nature like the Noble Savage, though I know that the Noble Savage came earlier), but I don't think woman made subordinate in a lot of Romantic literature. Consider: The Idiot Boy, The Nightingale, Christabel, Lamia, The Female Vagrant. All poems where females are strong either sexually, physically, or mentally; sympathetic, or on a par or superior to the men around them.

    The focus of Romantic criticism is shifting now, to focus on the woman writers of the period. In fact, my University is a large part of this, and my lecturer, Dr. John Strachen, recently published Key Concepts in Romantic Literature which emphasized female writers.
     
  10. arron89
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    I guess I was thinking more in terms of the creation of Romantic art and literature...in the texts themselves, I agree you can find exceptions, but I would still maintain that strong doesn't necessarily contradict subordinate, at least when we're considering the role of the text in society as opposed to the role of the woman in the text. There is still an emphasis on the popular tropes of the time--dangerous women, supernatural women, the 'fallen woman' type--and given that the majority of these authors are men writing for men, I think their motives in many cases are questionable. They're not writing Feminist literature, they're writing often exploitative or at least objectifying literature about women.
     
  11. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    That's fair enough.
     
  12. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    Maybe they can't because they are all written by men.
    There is not one female author that is a peot and romanticist at the same time.
     
  13. Dante Dases
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    Not poets, but the Brontë sisters were part of the romanticism movement, I think.

    And see Banzai and Lemex's conversation above.
     
  14. the1
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    Am I mistaken to believe that Mary Shelley and Mary Wollstonecraft are the same person? The former being her married name.
     
  15. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    I presumed that by Woolstonecraft he meant Shelley's mother, as he'd put Shelley separately already.


    What about Elizabeth Barrett Browning then?
     
  16. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Neither being romantic nor romanticism are only for men. :)
     
  17. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    I was hoping this would be the answer but I was asking because it seems that it is still the norms to expect the men t o buy flowers and presents for the lady. Well at least that is what I seem to see in the movies.

    @Banzai

    well it goes to show I have never heard of her...thank you for letting me know. I shall have a look.
     
  18. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Depends on the people, I guess.

    I'm not that fussed about flowers. I also don't think the guy should have to pay for everything etc.

    But presents are nice all around.

    That's why I would think men like to receive them as well.
     
  19. Animal
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    Every woman that I know has been romantic at one time or another. I’ve even received a dozen red roses from a woman who wanted to date me… not the norm I admit.

    But are we programmed or conditioned for the woman to be the pursued and the man the pursuer? Or is this a custom or culture thing? Do men normally run away if they are pursued? Do we even need to have a pursuer and a pursued?
     
  20. Cacian
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    no of course not.
    I think culture and moeurs has a lot to do with it.
    I believe that human instinct to please the people they are attracted knows no boundaries.
    I women as much as men are instincively attracted to each other and would want to please each other in the same ways.
     

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