It seems to be that writers are almost doing and seeing things...

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by JJ_Maxx, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    Totally can be replaced with completely often, no?

    Also, I rarely use the word seem but I have others.

    However,
    Though,
    Had,
     
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  2. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    That's a good list! I'll have to remember to watch for these in my own writing.

    I must also agree with JJ and JayG, and many who have come before me. These words, these adverb-ish modifier, become no more than conversational, noncommittal padding.
     
  3. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    It's why I don't like using 'seem' when it can be easily replaced or removed.
    There's no commitment.
    When I saw an angry dog barking at me, I think "This dog's angry!" not "This dog seems angry"
    Seem should only be used when the MC is actually confused himself on what he is seeing. Like "The dog seems angry but he isn't barking."
     
  4. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    Could it be that someone told them to avoid the "was" and "were" (I've heard people saying the varieties of the verb to Be should be avoided as far as possible, is that true?) and tried to take the easy way out instead of rewriting the sentence like JayG suggested?
     
  5. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    The word 'seem' is a good word to create suspense, because the writer can say something seems one way and then take the story in a different direction creating a plot twist.
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This is an excellent example. It also points out that using these words is indeed acceptable IF they have a specific purpose.
     
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  7. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    I would say this is the product of public education in academic writing. When it comes to school papers and the like, I remember being taught to avoid definitives and absolutes because, as critical analysts, we don't know "what is". We only know "what appears to be." In fiction, it is better to have confidence in your description so that readers can have the full effect. Then if it is a bad or ineffective description, you can change it.
    Unless it is from a character's perspective, things are as the narrator/author says they are. Saying "The trees seemed to dance in the wind" gives the reader too much room to think about what is really happening (or it least that's been my experience). If you say "The trees danced to a ballad carried by the breeze," I know without a doubt that the wind is blowing, the trees are moving and the narrator has a poetic way of processing the world. I don't have to think about it but to relish in the metaphor. I'm actually reading Lolita, by Vladimir Nabokov, and the MC/narrator, Humbert Humbert, is notorious for his metaphors and his way of "Humbertizing" the world.

    Another example might be saying something like, "The library was kind of full." In this case, "kind of" is not entirely problematic, but it might be more beneficial to say, "the library was almost full" or "there were only a few available seats left in the library." As the reader, I have to take it as it is and can move on to something more important. "Kind of" is just too ambiguous, to me.

    Having said all that, I agree in part with almost everything in this thread. @Lewdog seems a bit sensitive about his opinions and his way of viewing things. But that cannot be said definitively-- though this is the second time I've seen him misinterpret other's comments in a self-victimizing and accusatory fashion.That aside, He makes a valid point. The words themselves are not dangerous or dirty. (It's clear we all agree on that point.) Like certain punctuation, I believe the solution is teaching people how to use such words, not black-listing them.

    However, I have to agree with @GingerCoffee et al. 99% of the time (and this is an unfounded generalized statement of observation, not fact), the way certain words and punctuation are used is more in-line with common speech and inappropriate (or unnecessary or ineffective) for narrative voice. New writers (myself included) should know to take all advice with discretion. Discouraging the use of certain words in certain contexts eliminates inappropriate usage of them, and experience in reading and writing and asking questions (like one who actually wishes to learn) will help writers recognize when it's okay. Most "rules" in writing are general guidelines that tend to make writing more sound and engaging.

    I have three main guidelines that I follow for cases like this:
    1. "There is a time and a place for everything."
    2. "Learn the 'rules' like a pro so you can break them like an artist."
    3. "A beautiful sentence is a precise sentence."
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
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  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I love that one.

    Actually it's a straw man to argue that anyone in the thread said absolutely never use [fill in the blank]. That was reiterated more than a few times.

    Taking that one step further, I might write, "She eyed the last few open seats, not one of them far enough away from him. It was going to be a long night at the library."

    ;)
     
  9. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Ooooh, I like that! Very revealing, indeed.
     
  10. MsScribble

    MsScribble Member

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    Same here; it waters down the sentence.

    'The trees were dancing in the breeze' is better.
     
  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Thank you. Two years ago I would have written, the library was kind of full. Now look at me. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
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  12. Fatback

    Fatback Banned

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    My comment was directed at the topic... Not you... Besides we are somewhat in agreement anyways... Haha the irony
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But taking any writing advice is likely to affect one's writing voice. If you disapprove of giving advice about writing in general, that's your right, but it does mean that when you read these forums, you're going to run into a lot of things that offend you. (I'd think that the very existence of the Review Room would be offensive.)
     
  14. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Not exactly because when someone critiques my work, I still have the final decision on what I do. It's always nice to have an outside source to read my work because they might catch something that I'm not seeing, but that doesn't mean I have to take every suggestion. I guess I'll have to post one of my short stories I wrote for a contest so people can see my 'writing voice.'
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    None of us are proposing that there be criminal or even civil penalties for using intensifying and weakening modifiers. :) You still have that same final decision.
     
  16. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Love P. Maya

    Love P. Maya New Member

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    I have not noticed the word "seems" in other writers' works. If some writers are doing that, I'd take it that things are happening, but they're not sure exactly what's happening. However, it is possible that a character in the work may appear as though he/she is confused.
     

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