1. Phaiyle
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    Phaiyle Member

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    Ivory Rain, Oppinions?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Phaiyle, Aug 5, 2008.

    Two years ago, During my senior year of high school, My friend (Whom I will call Crimson for interweb purposes) and I started writing together in a class we shared. It was an elective so we had a lot of free "down" time.

    Crimson and I have since decided to turn it into a possible novel. I love the story and all, but I'm a little worried about it. It's in my nature. So I thought I would get some opinions on the current idea.




    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_​


    History!

    The third world war has come and gone. Leaving the world blanketed in ice and snow. A thousand years ago, dragon eggs were found in an underground cave. Now dragons are a common sight. As slaves. They are controlled by a man made chemical, horribly dubbed, dragons bane. The bane is added to chains, harnesses, even sometimes the creatures food all in attempt to keep them weak. A rebel group arose, bent on freeing the dragons.

    Plot!

    While it is probably obvious from the history, the story is mainly about the freedom of the dragons. The main characters, Damien, Raven and Diana. Begin in a slave trade camp. They are about to go to auction when the three break out of the camp. An easy enough task for two full blooded dragons who have not been on dragons bane all their lives. Damien and Raven are dragons, Damien happens to be extremely old and strangely immune to Dragons bane. Raven has lost most of her memories. She cant seem to remember anything past being captured and brought to the camp. Diana is a noble born woman who turned rebel.

    After escaping the camp they make their way, hunted all the while, to the rebel stronghold. I don't want to let to much else escape because it will give away the big awesome part of the story. But basically, they raise an army of dragons, humans and creatures called Greystones who are sick dragon experiments. Obviously they win the dragons freedom.

    The book will be entitled Ivory Rain due to the snow and how the world was actually covered in it. It had nothing to do with the world as humans believed. it was in fact the patron dragon who cast the world into winter. Ivory Rain refers to snow, which IS explained in the book But only by a legend. Hopefully most people will be clever enough to get it.

    _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_​

    Any way. I'd really like some suggestions, comments, possibly even constructive criticism as long as its not offensive. (Basically done right. Which I know you guys are typically really nice) Questions I'd be happy to answer. But Im not going to give out any of the big surprises. If you want though, I will message you them, if you really want to know! I know that it depends on how its written and all that good stuff. Im really looking for...hmm.. Would you read it? Does the basic idea intrigue you? (and then of course, if so, suggestions, comments, concerns, bla bla bla XD) So shoot. And thanks for taking the time.
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    A story concept means nothing. I can tell you now, it has been done before. What matters is how you write it, the characterization, the flow, the imagery, all of it.

    There's no point to asking what other people think of the concept! They'll either say,"Sounds great," or, "it sounds like a ripoff of..."

    If the idea stirs you, write it. Then ask people what they think of the final story. After they tell you what they don't like about it, revise it, usually several times, until you're happy with it or until you throw up your hands and say the hell with it.

    Please read this thread about What is Plot Creation and Development?

    (and yes, this is a template post, which should give you an idea of how often this comes up.)
     
  3. Phaiyle
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    Phaiyle Member

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    Thanks for your comment, though templeted. I understand what your saying. I realize that a concept is simply a concept and that it depends on the writing. But that doesn't mean That asking others opinions of it isn't a good idea. They maybe able to contribute ideas you didn't think of. Why have to go back and edit what you write, when you can simply write the better one in the first place.
     
  4. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Most often, those ideas will develop as you write. Now, if you've written out most of your novel and find yourself stuck on a particular plot point, THAT's the time to ask for ideas, not when you have a pretty good idea of where you want to take the story.

    After all, you want it to be your story, not a story by committee! :)
     
  5. Ungood
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    Ungood Contributing Member

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    Any way. I'd really like some suggestions, comments, possibly even constructive criticism as long as its not offensive. (Basically done right. Which I know you guys are typically really nice) Questions I'd be happy to answer.[/quote]

    I have many "realism" issues with this.

    Mainly - it would depend on how you explained the factual aspects of this that would be biggest issue to me.
     
  6. Leo
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    Leo Senior Member

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    This is, however, a "Plot Creation" forum. So what do you expect apart from questions about creating plot-lines?

    On another note, I like the ideas. They don't sound too badly cliched to me.

    I might be put off by perpetual ice and snow though. When I read a story I picture it in my head (obviously) and personally I like some variety to the terrain. Could you have a sort of "Oasis" or "Eden" area, where nature is fighting back, or something? Sort of a "New Hope".

    I dunno, maybe that's cheesy, and fairly unrealistic. But then the whole idea of dragons is hardly realistic in that sense, so why not?
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I expect to see people asking about issues they encounter in developing a plot, not asking for an opinion on a story outline. But even if the original question HAD been for more ideas to build up the plot. my recommendation would be the same - to write the story until the writer either finishes or hits a roadblock. And when a roadblock has been identified, that's a reasonable time to ask for ways to break through the barrier.
     
  8. Chef Dave
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    Chef Dave Member

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    Your story environment doesn't make any sense to me. I can understand WW III. Those of us who grew up during the Cold War with black and white, "stop, drop, and cover" films for what to do during a nuclear attack are quite familiar with what might have happened during and after a nuclear war ... even allowing for the fact that most of the training films they showed us in school were absolute rubbish.

    But dragons? Dragons belong in fantasies. I don't see how you can combine post WW III with the existence of dragons.

    Reign of Fire was a 2002 film directed by Rob Bowman and starring Christian Bale, Matthew McConaughey, Izabella Scorupco, and Gerard Butler. It takes place in the near future after dragons were reawakened by a construction crew. The dragons in this movie destroyed the world and humanity is now on the verge of extinction.

    The movie got incredibly bad reviews largely because the critics of this movie thought that the premise was ill conceived. I also thought that the plot was poorly written.
     
  9. Phaiyle
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    Phaiyle Member

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    I see what your saying, as of right now, there is a bit of a terrain difference, They start out near the ocean, a part with some caves, and finally a giant wall in the south. Which makes complete sense to be south enough to be green if I so chose. Though, it might not fit in to well with the actual reason WHY the planet is "frozen" >.> (its frozen because when the patron dragons eggs were taken from her cave as she slept she was so angry she swore the world wouldn't see life until they were returned to her)

    And, to Chef Dave:

    To be quite honest, Reign of Fire was.... decent at best. I agree it WAS poorly written. The fact that its post apocalyptic doesn't pertain what so ever to the actual events. Only in the area's that there is limited technology, limited life and the like.

    The ww III is barely touched on, a thought really. Its so far after the war no one really knows any of the FACTS about the war. In all honesty, it wasn't even the humans who caused the planet to basically freeze. But, thats what the humans think, thats what they believe.

    I never said the story wasn't fantasy. I admit it is entirely fantasy, it has dragons! But instead of taking it into an entirely fantasy realm with elves and fairy's and all that, I decided to add one single element of fantasy. In the book there is a lot of knowledge given about HOW dragons came to be. What happened to them. It unfolds as the story progresses.

    The History is not what takes place in the book. Its only there to give a sense of what happened to the world before the story. The main focus of It isnt post ww III. Its the dragons fighting for their freedom.

    EDIT

    Also, allow me to make myself more clear on the actual "wwIII" The usage of wwIII isnt correct in any sense to what actually happened. But The humans believe it was their fault the world is the way it is. Most of them don't believe dragons have any bit of intelligence. In the year it takes place, humans have had dragons as slaves for a good 800 years. Dragons play dumb to stay alive.

    The war was more of a squabble. I threaten you, you threaten me. In the end, dragons were used as weapons. Bombs were dropped, But not like... hydrogen bombs. Nothing even close. What really happened, was the world began to freeze, people got sick and died. They blamed it on the war. And as rumors go, they started to make stuff up as the generations past. Making the war seem worse and worse with each passing.

    The truth behind this, does eventually come out. But only to a small small point. Its explained that the patron was responsible for the world freezing, and in explanation WHY she did it. The war is mentioned, in the way it actually happened.
     
  10. Leo
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    Leo Senior Member

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    I know, I'm just saying that the "Creation" part of the forum title (rather than, say, "Development") is probably what is making all these people you mention post their early ideas (whilst creating the plot). And why shouldn't they, really?

    I understand, though, that you are only offering your advice.

    And I had the same thought as Chef Dave, about dragons being confined to fantasy, when I first read the idea. But I think that just makes the writing more challenging, to make the reader really believe that the idea is realistic.

    If the idea is specifically that the whole planet is frozen, then I wouldn't change that, it was just a thought.

    Personally, I quite liked Reign of Fire, for what it was. But it's not exactly cinematic literature.
     
  11. Lillias
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    Lillias Member

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    To me Phaiyle , your story sounds like an interesting alternate history idea.
    But the others are right. The execution of the idea is the most important thing.
    Good luck! :)
     
  12. Leo
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    Leo Senior Member

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    Are their just going to be dragons? Or could there be other fantasy creatures?

    And what sort of technlogy is there in the story? Has the world returned to medieval technology, or is there still some modern technology?
     
  13. Phaiyle
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    Phaiyle Member

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    The only fantasy creatures are the dragons. And the hint at a elemental gods. But they never make any such appearance. More or less mentioned in legend.

    The technology is a bit limited. Medieval basically. I'd go with a more ancient Roman feel. They have weapons, arrows, swords and the beginning of guns. But only in development, and extremely guarded. No electricity, Running water due to a pressure system. Like the Romans and Mayans did, with narrowed canals. Heated water, by fires. Transportation is comprised of sleds led by dogs, horses, or dragons.

    They have a lot of things that normally wouldn't be possible thanks to the dragons. In the slave camps there is indoor heating from the dragons fires. Baths, and showers. Labor systems.
     
  14. Shadows Doubt
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    Shadows Doubt Member

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    I think that the biggest problem, for the person reading the story, is to let go of their current reality and indulge themselves into yours. I find that people tend to forget that a fantasy story, no matter how similar to our current world, is it's own reality. If you say that humans are born with magical leprechauns that tell them to burns things, it's fine! It's your world, your story, your fantasy, do as you please. If a person just can't let their imagination take control and lead them on a crazy adventure in another reality, because they are rooted to this world, it's their loss for missing out on what could be a potentially great story! I'm sorry if this seems like a little bit of a rant, I just find that too many people nowadays have a need to associate our worlds realism with that of a fantasy world because they are similar in description. Fantasy is what you make it to be, only the writer knows it's rules and boundaries.

    Phaiyle, I personally think you have something good going here. Actually you had me at the title :D. I believe you have an interesting plot. I'm curious to see how the events of your story are going to unfold. I would imagine that there are many slave camps all over the world? What would be the primary source of food? If you ever post a draft, I'd be more than happy to read it.
     
  15. Phaiyle
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    Phaiyle Member

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    Thank you, Shadow. I, too, believe people have a hard time understanding the differences between our world and the possibilities that fantasy brings to the imagination. Makes me sad really...

    but to answer your questions. The story is centered around what USED to be asia (mainly in the china region.) The geography has changed a bit, not much is known about the regions outside of the area in which the story takes place. Its a large area, miles, but its isolated by ocean and mountains. We haven't really thought to much of what the outside world would be like, or even if its inhabitable at all. (We really need to think more on it T.T) As far as food. In the camps veggies ARE grown. In a sort of green house regulated by the different dragons abilities. (Fire, water, ect.) At first it was the dragons gift to humans, to keep their food growing in the cold. But when they were enslaved it became part of their work. There are also various animals living. Mostly small creatures. Rabbits, small dear, rats.... various things. They've adapted their tastes and digestion to survive on not only very little, but things like sticks and the tundra plants. There are a few rumors of larger beasts... but their not really confirmed. Fish and stuff from the ocean and few running rivers are the MAIN meats eaten. (as well as dragon by some of the nobles...)

    I would love to post a draft. I've been working out the details for the first chapter and I'm planning on starting it soon. I wanted the first chapter to be a bit different than the others. In that I HATE PoV switched, drives me nuts. Especially when it does it from chapter to chapter. So, the first chapter is going to introduce all the characters in a progression but each step is in a different characters PoV. dunno if it will work out to well but... gonna try.


    Ivory Rain Prologue!
    I wrote up a possible prologue as well. I wanted it to be simple and to the point. To explain a sense of what happened to lead up to the world the main story will take place in. So there it is.
     

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