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  1. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Japanese Gun Control

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Duchess-Yukine-Suoh, Aug 13, 2014.

    Now, I know that a popular option is "If they take our guns away, we will be shot up by the people who get guns illegally." So, I'd like to introduce you to Japanese gun control:
    “To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you’ll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or rifle. Just don’t forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.”
    So, it's rather difficult to get a legal gun in Japan. But, without easily-obtainable guns, were the Japanese citizens all shot by people who got illegal guns?

    In 2008, Japan had 84 homicides. America had 9,484.


    Yes, there were homicides. Just 9,400 less of them.
     
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  2. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Short of banning guns for civilians, this sounds like a pretty comprehensive strategy to keep gun violence under control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  3. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Oh wow. I am so sorry child. You did not want to do this.
     
  4. DPVP
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    DPVP Active Member

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    Wow another reason not to live in Japan!

    Considering the homogeneity of the culture, and its history of arms control (had to keep the peasants in line) i dont think a US Japan comparison works very well.
     
  5. Snoopingaround
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    Snoopingaround Banned

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    Yes, death really is a downer. But, to make life more full and adventurous, don't we need the prospect of violence and death in our lives? I say end the requirement to register guns, period. In fact, there should a law requiring that gun dealers don't even maintain records of buyers, for privacy and freedom's sake. This country needs to be more violent, way more. I have only witnessed a few dozen crimes in my life, and only one shooting. America is not living up to its reputation. This is a problem we all can help and contribute to.
     
  6. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    Despite the lamentable lack of a standard sarcasm tag for Internet forums (though I read this morning that Facebook is experimenting with one), I completely agree with these two sentences:

    "I say end the requirement to register guns, period. In fact, there should a law requiring that gun dealers don't even maintain records of buyers, for privacy and freedom's sake."

    Liberty is far more important than an imagined security.
     
  7. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Here in the UK there are only certain kinds of firearms available to the public, you have to pay for a licence and rather indepth background check for £20 and pass a gun knowledge and aptitude test (I think this is only for shotguns, I know I had to take one when I first got one). Your house is also subject to police inspection of the firearm and seeing if it is still being treat properly. They are legal here, obviously, but restricted and under a bit of control: this is the way guns should be treated.
     
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  8. Aled James Taylor
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    Aled James Taylor Contributing Member Contributor

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    In the UK, handguns are illegal. They were made illegal after a school shooting in 1996. Guess when the last school shooting was in the UK. (I'll give you a clue: it was between 1995 and 1997).
    I'm not sure, but I think if you want a shotgun licence in the UK, you also need written permission from a landowner to shoot on his/her land, or be a member of a clay-pigeon shooting club.
     
  9. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    And if that works for you folks in the UK, great. The OP was comparing gun crime in Japan to that in the US, and an outright ban on handguns, even if it would accomplish anything (it wouldn't) would be impossible here.
     
  10. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    How do you know it wouldn't accomplish anything?
     
  11. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    The guns are already in circulation. All any new legislation would accomplish is creating more laws for the already law abiding.
     
  12. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Maybe I'm just too European to understand this fully, but in the UK handguns were made illegal and taken out of most circulation without any fuss what so ever outside of a few nut-jobs no one listens to.
     
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  13. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    What was the method of removing handguns? How many were removed?
     
  14. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    If I remember correctly (I was 7 in 1997 when the law was passed) it was a lengthy voluntary thing where you handed your handguns in for vouchers for other, legal guns, or W.H Smiths and shops like that. It went on for a few years, and unless they cause trouble policemen still don't really care if you still have a handgun - so long as you don't give them a reason to care. They have more important things to do than go after people who just want to hold onto an old German Luger or .45.
     
  15. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Of course, we do have our share of crazies like your Alex Jones 'Orh may gawd guys, the Illuminati want aw'a gurns!' and they were forceably removed by police. You know what, I don't have an issue at all with emotionally unstable people not having firearms.
     
  16. DPVP
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    DPVP Active Member

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    Probably, you still have a monarchy that is the head of the church. what year is this again?
     
  17. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    :chill:

    If you want to discuss gun control, folks, go ahead, but do it civilly and without bashing other countries. Thanks.
     
  18. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Yeah, like America's system is any newer. Get real.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  19. DPVP
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    No just makes a lot more sense :) but the fact that that is an acceptable government where you have a head of state from "god" says that you are very different.
     
  20. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Wow, such ignorance. How's that Pledge of Allegiance stuff working out for you anyway - or is it different when you are allowed to pick your God-given representative? :) Besides, if we are going to ignore the difference between a constitutional monarchy and theocratic monarchy, then forgive me for not seeing the difference between what is supposed to be a republic and an oligarchy. OH DEAR!
     
  21. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    The Yanks will give us some guns when we need them.

     
  22. DPVP
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    DPVP Active Member

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    yeah and we should return the pledge to how it was. Is not your queen the head of the church of England? so are you or the UK gov spinning a lie :)
     
  23. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Protestant Anglicanism is the official church of the UK, it has no baring on the actual working of government; you'd know that if you actually knew anything about the subject. Hey, at least England's government is upfront about it, instead of pretending to be a secular republic 'under God'. And you'd be amazed how little anyone in the UK actually cares about religion these days, Anglican or otherwise. So ... what would would you rather have, a little bit of creaking honesty about tradition, or blatant hypocrisy and lies? Your choice. :)

    It's clear by now that you don't understand anything about political theory. You are done here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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  24. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    One way anti-gun propaganda twists statistics is to say "look at Australia: very little firearm-related violence, ergo gun control really works!" Yeah, only if the goal is to lower only firearm-related violence while increasing every other kinds of violence. Since the Australian firearms ban (firearms were also collected away from the public), all other forms of violent crime skyrocketed, ranging from murder, muggings, robberies, rape etc. I wouldn't call that as much success as I'd call it a failure if the goal ever was to reduce violent crime in general. If the goal was to increase violent crime but lower firearms-related crime, then sure, it was a great success.

    Likewise, UK hasn't had another school shooting since the handgun ban? Fantastic. Finland has had a shitload of school shootings since we made our gun laws strict as fuck. Now what does that tell us: does gun control prevent or cause school shootings? Who knows because all such comparisons tell us is... jackshit.

    Another way to twist facts on both sides is to ignore percentages and to report instances of incidences, comparing small countries or states to larger ones to support either pro or anti-gun propaganda. E.g. comparing the number of homicides in Japan to that of the States to support anti-gun propaganda. Likewise I could compare the number of all violent crime in Vermont (ridiculously low number) where gun laws are extremely lax to that of, say, Washington or California (where it's very high) where they are very strict so I can showcase lax gun laws result in very low numbers of all violence. Then again, even by comparing the percentages of Vermont to e.g. Cali, Vermont would still win hands-down (read from that what you will), so we shouldn't even compare only percentages because those two states are very different to begin with, not to mention the differences between different countries and their cultures, like USA and Japan, for instance. I could compare Swizerland to the UK or Australia to show gun control will never work but what good would that do? Exactly, absolutely nothing. I'd just be preaching to the choir (half of the forum) and be ignored by the anti-gun advocates (the other half).

    Statistics can give us some indication at best, but they are poor tools as the sole method of representing the truth of such a complex issue.
     
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  25. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    Civil disobedience has a long and storied history in the US, and we are a lot less inclined toward authority-worship than folks in other countries, including the UK. Most of us would simply refuse to hand over our guns. There are 200 million gun owners here. Do you suppose they could put us all in prison?

    The Second Amendment to our Constitution guarantees our personal right to keep and bear arms, making the whole question of confiscation moot.

    The mass shootings of the type you refer to (and that you and your countrymen allowed your government to use to disarm you) are invariably perpetrated by mentally-ill persons using guns that were purchased legally by them or others. You won't stop that sort of crime by taking guns from law-abiding citizens.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
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