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  1. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Jeremy corbyn - i don't understand something.

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Lemex, Aug 13, 2015.

    Well, it seems the more the Tories attack him, the more Tony Blair attacks him too. Blair is quoted as saying if Jeremy Corbyn became the leader of the Labour Party, it would mean the end of the Labour Party. I don't think I understand how though - Corbyn seems quite popular. Can anyone explain this to me?
     
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  2. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    I was thinking you could take what Blair says and reverse it. ie he's concerned Corbyn may become the leader of the Labour Party and is doing whatever he can to prevent it.
     
  3. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    They don't call him Tory Blair for nothing...
     
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  4. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    That's politics for you, Lemex. If a party doesn't like someone who is the darling of the opposition, they attack him relentlessly in the fervent hope that he won't succeed. They'll make up whatever excuse they can to make the opposition's poster child look like the big bad wolf.
     
  5. Dante Dases
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    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

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    Blair's attacking him because he's an electoral liability. No matter what anyone says about principles and purity, the fundamental point about a democracy is that winning matters. Corbyn has great principles, he's a conviction politician, he's energised the idealist in virtually every member of the Labour party... and there's no way on earth that he'd win an election. And the Tories know that. And Blair knows that.

    Corbyn winning would most likely marginalise the Labour party. An opposition can only be effective if the party in power knows the opposition can win the next election, and under Corbyn Labour wouldn't be able to do that. A lurch to the left would appease the grass-roots of the party, but it would mean floating voters in key marginal seats wouldn't vote for us. And what use are principles if they can't be acted on?
     
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  6. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. :)
     
  7. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    A sorry state of affairs is what it is. When a politician actually represents and stands for the fundamental principles and precepts on which their party was founded and is then deemed too far to the left to be considered a viable leadership candidate. It's the Labour Party! The party of the working classes, or it was.
    I understand about the marginal seats. I understand the reservations Blair, Brown et al have re. winning the next General Election. It doesn't mean I have to like it though.
    I stopped believing in the Labour Party when they sold it down the river under their tenure.
     
  8. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    To be honest, I totally agree with you. I also see what Blair means when he says Corbyn might be too left wing to lead a left wing party in 2015. But that's a really bloody awful statement on the state of British politics in 2015. The worst thing is that it's now really hard to predict what the political landscape of the UK will look like in 2025 - and it's not like 'the people' are likely to be fairly represented.
     
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  9. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    I mean it most sincerely when I say that I hope another strong party emerges in the North of England that represents the working classes. If the SNP weren't so distracted with nationalism, I'd urge more of the electorate to vote for them as they're the only party in Westminster currently giving us a voice. If such a party were to manifest itself, there would be a strong case for cross-border collusion and tactical voting between them on common interests. I think the time is right.
     
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  10. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Yeah, I totally agree. All the SNP needs to do is drop the nationalism (and change their name) and start campaigning south of the Tweed we have the best party for most people in the UK. I don't see how anyone could contest that. Especially considering their strength and success in Scotland - and the fact the Lib Dems are ... what? Smaller than even UKIP? (HAHAHAHA! - if that is true)
     
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  11. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    There's more chance of Farage winning the labour leadership contest than the SNP dropping the nationalism. Makes sense to me though. It's the politics and policies I'm interested in rather than the tartan and shortbread tins.
     
  12. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    The worrying thing is, if the SNP keep riding the high wave of popularity in Scotland they might actually get Scotland split from the rest of the UK - and we here in England might find ourselves in an in increasingly right-wing country, with a main party who are well documented in telling lies, and are even doing it now as we speak.
     
  13. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    True. I voted yes for purely political reasons. To ensure that I'd never be governed by the Conservative Party again. So near, yet so far.
     
  14. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I can't blame you. If I was north of the border I'd be doing exactly the same.
     
  15. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    Corbyn is electricity by comparison to Burnham et al. Roll on Saturday, roll on 2020, nationalised utilities, public railway...tho no nukes...love my nukes. Otherwise, fantastic step in the right direction, comrades. Free love in my lifetime, and his, though he is very old, 79?Burnham becomes PM after state funeral held at Islington Town Hall.
     
  16. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34237564
    Well, they didn't see this coming, did they? I will watch how the party develops with interest in the coming months.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  17. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    So will I. That's all we can do really. I don't really see merit right now in doom-prophets and nay-sayers who are suggesting this is the Ragnarok of the Labour Party.

    I guess all we can do is wait.
     
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  18. Christopher Snape.
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    Christopher Snape. Member

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    It's not like Labour has been doing well over the past twenty years anyway.

    UKIP isn't my cup of tea by a long shot, but I sympathise with the frustration a two-party duopoly brings. In my opinion the UK should have voted to abandon FPTP in 2011 instead of embracing it overwhelmingly. I can't tell whether that's the British zeitgeist of being overly cautious, or if the referendum was butchered.

    Possibly both.
     
  19. Dante Dases
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    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'll take issue with your comment that Labour hasn't done well for the past 20 years - we spent 13 of those years as the (sole) party of government. We won three general elections, two by a landslide. Granted, it was a very different party then, but even so.

    Though I agree we need to move to different voting system. FPTP has given the Tories a majority government with just 37% of the vote - we've lost seats despite increasing our own vote percentage (mostly down to Scotland, it should be added). The Greens polled over a million votes and got one seat.

    The 2011 referendum was a fiasco. The alternative put forward was not a true alternative. It was a butchered mish-mash which wasn't even what the Lib Dems wanted, and they were the ones who had pushed for the referendum. I voted for it as a way of saying I wanted change, but the system was the wrong one and got pulverised because nobody actually understood it.

    Anyway, I watched the TU Bill debate last night. We lost, but by God we put up one hell of a fight. Proper opposition. Of course, it's been sidelined by the Tory press who are happily ignoring the fact that the entire Labour movement was united in its cause last night in favour of attacks on Corbyn. Can't help but think the bastards are running scared because we're no longer within their window of debate and they don't know how to deal with it.
     
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  20. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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    I see Corbyn chose not to sing the British national anthem today - being as he's a staunch republican - as he paid his respects at the Battle of Britain memorial service and the national press' outrage at the decision, as though there cannot be mutual exclusivity in that respect. Nonsense of course.
    Liking him more each day.
     
  21. pyroglyphian
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    pyroglyphian Member

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    Yes, he does not flow with the 'neoliberal' zeitgeist.
     
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